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To: Post Toasties
Whites historically were not guilty of 'slaughtering Indians' except in isolated, small instances. Perthaps you have the wrong continent if you are thinking of genocide. Try Europe, Asia or Africa if you want to accuse somebody of 'slaughtering'.

The estimates of the number of American Indians killed goes into the millions, but that's beside the point of my post anyway.

My point was that this, and the atrocities you listed, occurred WITHOUT the influence of video games. Care to address THAT point?

276 posted on 12/16/2012 5:37:26 AM PST by TwelveOfTwenty (Ho, ho, hey, hey, I'm BUYcotting Chick-Fil-A)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty
Such estimates are not based on facts in any way - just wishful thinking by the ignorant and irresponsible with an axe to grind since no record exists of any program of extermination of Indians, at least in within the current boundaries of the United States. I have been looking for cites for decades and have not found any that remotely come close to qualifying. Unless you can provide such verifiable specific documented records with numbersx, you will in have in effect conceded my point.

You may be conflating the numbers of Indians who died of diseases they had little or no resistance to that were imported by Europeans with the above, but that is another subject entirely, and not a wilful extermination of Indians by Europeans.

280 posted on 12/16/2012 12:33:18 PM PST by Post Toasties (Leftists give insanity a bad name. 0bama: Eight years of failure and fingerpointing.)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty
Here's some actual numbers from Wikipedia (as opposed to wild handwaving claiming 'millions of North American Indians killed by Whites):

Determining how many people died as a direct result of armed conflict between Native Americans, and Europeans and their descendants, is difficult as accurate records were not always kept.[51] Various statistics have been developed concerning the devastation of the American Indian Wars on the peoples involved. One notable study by Gregory Michno used records dealing with figures "as a direct result of" engagements and concluded that "of the 21,586 total casualties tabulated in this survey, military personnel and civilians accounted for 6,596 (31%), while Indian casualties totaled about 14,990 (69%)." for the period of 1850–90. However, Michno says he "used the army's estimates in almost every case" & "the number of casualties in this study are inherently biased toward army estimations".[52]

According to the U.S. Bureau of the Census (1894), "The Indian wars under the government of the United States have been more than 40 in number. They have cost the lives of about 19,000 white men, women and children, including those killed in individual combats, and the lives of about 30,000 Indians."[53]

In God, Greed, and Genocide: The Holocaust Through the Centuries, Grenke quotes Chalk and Jonassohn with regards to the Cherokee Trail of Tears that "an act like the Cherokee deportation would almost certainly be considered an act of genocide today".[54] The Indian Removal Act of 1830 led to the Trail of Tears. About 17,000 Cherokees — along with approximately 2,000 black slaves owned by Cherokees — were removed from their homes.[55] The number of people who died as a result of the Trail of Tears has been variously estimated. American doctor and missionary Elizur Butler, who made the journey with one party, estimated 4,000 deaths.[56]

So, a total number over 200 years of several tens of thousands is reasonable for the territory covering the United States, noting that most of these were actually combat casualties in which Whites also were killed in substantial numbers. In no way would this been enough to cause a large decrease in the native American population. Btw, Andrew Jackson, the first Democrat Party president of the United States, was personally responsible for the Trail of Tears - the single greatest crime against North American Native Americans.

All this handwaving about millions of Indians killed in genocide does is create hot air which I think we have more than enough of already particularly from Leftists.

281 posted on 12/16/2012 12:53:33 PM PST by Post Toasties (Leftists give insanity a bad name. 0bama: Eight years of failure and fingerpointing.)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty
"The estimates of the number of American Indians killed goes into the millions...."

Ohhh..really????.....millions????

According to the US Bureau of Census (1894).....

The Indian Wars under the government of the United States have been more than 40 in number. They have cost the lives of about 19,000 white men, women and children, including those killed in individual combats, and the lives of about 30,000 indians.

Millions???? Really???

288 posted on 12/16/2012 7:20:50 PM PST by diogenes ghost
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