Posted on 11/29/2012 12:52:02 AM PST by marktwain
MIAMI — In what could become another test of Florida’s broad self-defense law, a software developer charged with killing a Jacksonville teenager said he reached for his gun and fired eight rounds only after he was threatened with a shotgun.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
The only threat here was Dunn and he was a threat to the people in this car and the public safety. He fired first. He was the only one who fired. And he fired last.
It sounds to me that if those in the other car had had a weapon that they would have been justified in shooting him as he was the real threat here — but they didn't because they either did not have a weapon or showed more restraint than the licensed gunowner here.
marktwain replies:
Often, defenders are the first and only people to have fired in an incident. It is not uncommon for defenders to fire before their attackers do, and to stop them from firing.
If the incident happened as Jordan's associates say, then Dunn was the threat. Apparently, you find their account convincing.
If the incident happened as Dunn's attorney says, then Dunn was justified.
I have read of thousands of armed encounters and posted them here on freerepublic. The account that Dunn's attorney gives seems basically plausible to me. The idea that a successful businessman, who has never been in trouble, simply starts shooting at a car full of young men who refuse to shut their music down, seems far less plausible.
It may be that details are being left out, that more evidence will come forward. I expect more will. If it turns out that Dunn has a fatal disease, a criminal record, or has mental problems or drug/alcohol abuse problems, or has a record of white supremacy, Jordan's associates account becomes more plausible.
If it turns out that Jordan's associates have criminal records, drug/alcohol abuse problems, mental problems or hatred of “Whitey”, then the account that Dunn's attorney has given becomes more plausible.
None of that has anything to do with the evidence against him. There is no evidence of a weapon of any kind in the kids' vehicle. Unless they find gun residue on the deceased kid's hands, Dunn is toast.
He left the scene. He finds out the police are looking for him and he leaves town. He drove 170 miles away. And it's 4 days later and he still hasn't called the police. They had to track him down from video at the gas station.
This is not the horse you want to attach your wagon to.
This has nothing to do with Zimmerman, and your strange conspiracy, theatrics are childish.
There hasn’t been anything strange about the routine reporting of this shooting.
I am pasting a link to an article by Massad Ayoob on the three main mistakes people make after a JUSTIFIED shooting. It would seem Dunn read the article and decided to do exactly as it said - in the inverse.
http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/3-most-common-post-shooting-errors
When I took a class on CCW and the law, one thing that was stressed is that in the eyes of law enforcement, flight=guilt. After a self-defense shooting, you MUST be the first to call 911 and report the incident.
This does not mean you are required to stay in a potentially-dangerous location. If you think the thug's friends will shortly show up, it is OK to leave the immediate area in order to get to a safer location (like the police station) in order to get in contact with the police.
Answer: It's NOT music. It is extreme low frequency oscillation. You can talk over it while it rattles the fillings in your teeth and nearby windows. I had this very same argument with a coworker last night, an otherwise sane man who could not make the distiction between a 5 watt amplifier and a 6x9 speaker and a 500 watt amplifier and a bank of 18 in woofers.
This is NOT MUSIC. It is TORTURE. And it is used/designed to torture the peace loving populace.
I think you nailed it.
You are grasping. In the very article we are discussing, the Zimmerman case is discussed.
Comparisons with the Zimmerman case are all over the net, and all over the discussions on freerepublic.
There is no conspiracy in noting the considerable difference in the reporting of the two incidents, though I am not exactly sure what the difference results from.
What is this "gun residue" that you are refering to?
You keep trying to turn what is so far, a normal, plain, routinely reported crime story into something bigger, more melodramatic, and as part of some larger tale of something.
Yesterday you were telling us how you survived an attempted robbery, with that same drama queen tone, "This time they chose poorly. I survived it." but you never got past simply saying that a black man had addressed you from his car, while at the mall parking lot.
Now I know situational awareness as much as just about anyone here, but seriously, your imagination and melodramatic tones are way over the top, and you are doing it to this fully, openly, reported story.
Weren't you one of the ones defending the Oklahoma Pharmacist who was convicted of 1st degree murder and is serving life?
They were coming from a wedding reception and buying a bottle of wine at the quick stop, then shot up a car and fled the scene, went to their hotel room where the TV news would be available to them, and then the next morning fled the jurisdiction.
From the article: “”He did not call the authorities; the police arrested him the following day, finding him because a witness noted his license plate number.””
There are some serious questions about this guy.
I would think that if he handled a shotgun, holding its barrel with his hand, then there should be oil or metallic particles from the barrel still on his hands. It’s a long shot but it’s all Dunn has at this point.
ansel12 posted:
Your drama queen breathlessness is creepy.
You keep trying to turn what is so far, a normal, plain, routinely reported crime story into something bigger, more melodramatic, and as part of some larger tale of something.
Yesterday you were telling us how you survived an attempted robbery, with that same drama queen tone, “This time they chose poorly. I survived it.” but you never got past simply saying that a black man had addressed you from his car, while at the mall parking lot.
marktwain replies:
You have me confused with another poster.
ansel12 posted:
Your drama queen breathlessness is creepy.
You keep trying to turn what is so far, a normal, plain, routinely reported crime story into something bigger, more melodramatic, and as part of some larger tale of something.
Yesterday you were telling us how you survived an attempted robbery, with that same drama queen tone, “This time they chose poorly. I survived it.” but you never got past simply saying that a black man had addressed you from his car, while at the mall parking lot.
marktwain replies:
You have me confused with another poster.
It is very possible that Jordan's associates stories will conflict with each other. If Dunn is telling the truth, one of them may be turned.
I did confuse you with someone else about that weird "attempted robbery" story.
The similar styles and tone threw me. Sorry about that.
But this is still true.
Your keep trying to turn what is so far, a normal, plain, routinely reported crime story into something bigger, more melodramatic, and as part of some larger tale of something.
Were you one of the ones defending the Oklahoma Pharmacist who was convicted of 1st degree murder and is serving life?
BTW, this is nothing like the Zimmerman case.
Not likely to happen.
If they had a gun in the vehicle that night when Dunn opened up on them they would have and should have used it.
They had every right to that same self-defense that Dunn claims he had.
But they retreated. They withdrew. They chose wisely.
And as they were retreating he kept firing.
marktwain replies:
Tell me about all the other "normal, plain, routinely reported crime stories" that are reported in the New York Times, that are reported all over the net, and which are reflexively tied to another story that was a cause celebre for months. Your statement is simply wrong on its face.
I see lots of "normal, plain, routinely reported crime stories" I have posted thousands of them on freerepublic. This is not one of them.
I do not recall all of my posts on that case, but I likely followed my usual procedure to state that there are two sides to the issue and that more information would be better before drawing a conclusion.
Now that I have answered your accusatory question, let me ask you one. Were you one of those posters who was convinced that Zimmerman was guilty of murdering Trayvon Martin?
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