[hopespringseternal]

Self determination must also consider the rights of those who do not want to secede, as well as those who want to secede.

Sophistry.

It does not permit a minority to destroy the Union.

So any time a majority has the votes, it is moral to enslave the minority? You are on the wrong site. DU would better fit your political ideology.

[x]

So any time a majority has the votes, it is moral to enslave the minority?

Given that the actual secessionists of 1861 were all for enslaving a minority, that's a touchy point.

[donmeaker]

Rather funny that you assert that the Slave power in 1860 had the right to enslave, but when the US resisted that minority attempt to enslave, the 1860 minority attempt to break the Union, the 1860 minority attempts to pretend to secession, and then complain about the minority being enslaved for being denied that right.

We need a better class of troll.

[donmeaker]

Or course the majority is limited by the constitution, which is practically interpreted by elected representatives, and by the courts.

The courts make errors. When that happens (Dredd Scott) an amendment can correct that (13th, 14th, 15th). That gives a key roll to states. If you can’t convince enough states, then you haven’t much of an argument.