Hollywood’s Casual Anti-Semitism

well, the Jewish relationship with the Bolsheviks and one has to pick one's words carefully.

My comment had nothing to do with 'Jews' relationship with the 'Bolsheviks' or Jews being Communists. That is obviously not the case in America.

But it had everything to do with the Hard Left in America -- and no, not the FDR New Deal liberals which is where many Jews gravitated. FDR was not a Commie and neither were most people who thought (mistakenly) that he was right, and still think so.

The hard left hated the FDR liberal types even before FDR and set out to destroy them, and they have pretty much succeeded in that effort over the last 30 or so years.

The old John L. Lewis type union leaders who really did care about the workers have been replaced by Hard Left ideologues like John Sweeney and Rich Trumpka who don't give a damn if every factory or coal mine in the country shuts down and puts those same workers on the street as long as it furthers their leftist agenda to destroy capitalism. The Left ain't the same as 'Liberals.'

Conservatives and Liberals could agree on things and find a way through disagreements. Conservatives and Leftists can never agree, and the problem we have today is there are really no Liberals anymore. The hard left owns the Democrat party, lock, stock and barrel.

From Walter Duranty in the 1920s, though Alger Hiss in the 40s and 50s, Jane Fonda and Bill Ayres in the 60s, to their current crop lead by Barak Obama, the leadership has never been Jews. None of the prominent hard left leaders in the US have been Jews.

There have been operatives like the Rosenbergs or Alinskies, but the bulk of the movement has always been strictly non-demoninational and mostly non-Jews.

For the hard left, their only religion and heritage is Marx. Nothing else matters for them. They don't compromise.

Firstly, it's not Nazi bullshit. As I said -- this was an incorrect linkage used to link Judaism and communism

A myth is correct

how others lied and did it -- what do you think "This was enough to demonise the Jews as Bolsheviks"

If you read my post, I point out how this is a false linkage -- now you using bad language and shouting it down serves no purpose

I see the post as educating people to be able to contradict any statement equating the two -- if someone does not know the history but is pointed out just Trotsky, Bela Kuhn, Trotsky, Kamenev, they will fall into the same mistake of believing the two groups to be equal -- people must know the (wrong) basis for these rumours

The myth of Judeo-Bolshevism should be known for what it is -- a myth -- and more importantly, the reasons for this should be told and debunked. And that is what my post does imho

Secondly, if you read through my post, you'll see words like "The Jews there were subjected to pogroms, second class citizenship treatment etc. and the May laws whereby their remaining rights were taken away from them was the last straw with "Communism with its themes of equality for all had an attraction for a persecuted people -- an understandable one." and I repeat Jewish origin - they were not practising, no more than Stalin or Mikoyan or others. and what exactly do you read in Marx was of Jewish origin (but his father had converted to Lutheranism before and Karl was an athiest) ? I point out three things: Marx may have been of Jewish origin, but his father had converted before his birth and Marx was an athiest

You honestly believe most people know about those last two things? Even most FR folks? forget about lurkers?

We MUST educate people on the "justifications" given and then debunk them.

You think the myth of Judeo-Bolshevism is not mouthed by different anti-Semites? Mouthed and used to convince those who don't read or haven't read.

you and I have a mission of distilling the centuries of history and pointing out the error of equating the two

Finally -- as I pointed out But under Stalin the party continued to be overly weighted in favor of non-Russians, not only those of Jewish origin, but also Georgians like Stalin or Armenians or even Poles like Dzierzhinsky and Radek. -- some anti-communist Russians even use this to wash off all blame. And, look at the background I give for why Jews got secularised in Russia, even rejecting their religion and why communism was attractive to them and to other Russian minorities

finally, I end with This is incredible from a historians point of view -- Jews who were demonised by the West as being Bolshevik sympathisers were demonised by the Soviets as being US-agents, Rotschild agents etc. -- this MUST be pointed out that Jews are accused of being pro-communist by anti-communists and being pro-capitalists by anti-capitalists. The truth is neither, individual Jews are individuals, even those of Jewish origin and we cannot, as I've said before, judge a collective by the actions of individuals

As I point out above, Jews in the Pale in the late 1800s had only 5 options (I forgot the last):

Assimilate -- become German or Polish or Russian
Assimilate -- reject religion and tradition and join those of Christian origin who did the same and become communist
Retreat into the old ways which worked before the partitions: Hassidic, Litvak etc. movements
Zionism - come to the conclusion that with the rise of nationalism in the adjoining areas, Jews needed a homeland -- and that was Israel
Migrate to the USA

Which would you choose? Most chose the 3rd option because it had worked for centuries

i would have chosen that or the first, but -- those who chose the 2nd, that would also be a logical way to move out of the ghettos and the shtetls

"WTH is the matter" -- if you remember closely, I was arguing on your side in a recent post after the elections where some FR folks were saying all jews are democrats -- this is the same insidious statement as the j-c linkage and must be vigorously combatted -- for those who weren't on that thread, I repeat here "just because 69% voted one way is not sufficient to label an entire community. AND, more importantly, the ones reading this on FR will be FR conservatives of Jewish origin -- not the target group" -- we MUST vigourously fight against anyone who uses that equation as well.

I believe that the logic of conservatism transcends boundaries and there is no reason to reject individuals of a particular religious group or ethnic group or even racial group as destined to being a dim/communist

We are seeing the same thing played out to a lesser extent here -- where Jews are slowly being targetted by the policies of the Democrat party and where we even see some conservatives as blaming all for the sins of those who voted D --> we must vigorously combat BOTH.

And, note: as a Catholic, I see the same thing happening to Catholics.

People must know the history behind things and be shown how the lies like the protocols etc are insidious lies

Yes, Liberals and Hard-leftists are different. I look at Liberals as being Victorian -- these were the folks who fought against child labor, 80 hour weeks etc., but I see their purpose as being spent

I look at Liberals as being Victorian -- these were the folks who fought against child labor, 80 hour weeks etc., but I see their purpose as being spent.

I see it a little differently. In my memory, back in the 1950s, 60s and even early 70s both liberals and conservatives had the same, or very similar objectives, and they fought in congress on how to achieve those objectives, and eventually reached a compromise. It was purly politics back then. Everyone could give and take.

When the hard leftists infiltrated the Democrat party, in the 70s, compromise on a common objectives became mush more difficult.

Today, with the hard left owning the Democrat party lock, stock and barrel, their are no common objectives with Republicans and no opportunity to compromise. Every issue is a core issue. It is always a cage match.

Think the 1850's when the sides became so welded in positions. That didn't turn out so well.

How can you compromise on core principles? That can't happen. Something has to give, and Obama is forcing it, not trying to find a way around it.

true, you are correct. There were Polish anti-semites, Polish communists -- as I pointed out, the strange thing is that the early Bolsheviks had minorities in larger % than their percentage in the Russian population (and there was a historical reason as I stated above)

And what you have given is the exact similar comparison -- we can even extend that to Americans and Brits --> there were anti-semites during the 30s and even the 40s. I don't know the %, but these would have been I'd guess 5% to 10%

BUT, these were not defining numbers and they CANNOT define the majority

Just because of a Jedwabne or a Charles Lindbergh or a Henry Ford or a Trotsky or a King Edward VIII one cannot condemn the majority

Those who have been told and/or believe the false myth of Judeao-Bolshevism should be pointed this out -- it is a myth

The bogey of the J and B linkage has been pandered not just in the 20s and 30s but even today in the Arab world and even in the west. We need to combat the propaganda with the truth -- show the complete picture

As you have pointed out , and people shouldn’t think we are discussing how the Poles were ant-semites, then nazis, then communists -- so many of our fellow freepers believe this, just as many may believe the myth of J-Bolshevism --> because people are told one side of the story.

We combat propaganda with education.

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