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To: fireman15
"To me that sounds like you are advocating for socialism and big government entitlement programs... and not just the “itty bitty” ones.

You appear confused about the definition of socialism. The label Socialism doesn't mean any and everything that you disagree with.

Socialism is about collective ownership of the means of production. Nothing we've said here is socialism. A tax on a free enterprise system is not socialism. Neither is a program to help the poor.

I firmly believe it is entitlement programs and social engineering that is destroying our country."

Well I firmly believe that some safety nets are good for our country. They encourage risk taking, they shore up areas of the economy hit by temporary economic disruptions, they keep people from starving when we do stupid thing like lower our import tariffs and export our jobs overseas, or lower the bank reserve ratios to 1% so there is no room to respond to a liquidity crisis without the President going to the nation and asking for massive loans and shocking consumer psychology, etc.

Entitlement programs destroying our country. No.

Medicare, Social Security, and SS Disability are merely insurance programs. Government run insurance programs, but insurance programs, nonetheless. People paid their premiums through taxes, now they are "entitled" to the insurance benefit. You can question the wisdom of government being in these programs. You can question whether they are being managed prudently. But that's what they are, and they aren't destroying our country.

Food Stamps, Unemployment, Lifeline phones, Medicaid are welfare type programs for the poor. They are a fundamental government responsibility. Our Colonial states had programs for the poor, and we still have programs for the poor. They need to be managed well so that fraud is prevented. And they need to be balanced. We can't spend all our money on the poor. But we don't need to let them starve either.

Social Engineering. That term is so broad, I don't really know what you mean by that. I have my own list of "social engineering" programs I'd like to see changed.

"I enjoy helping people and am fortunate enough to be in a profession where the government pays me to do it."

So you're out of a job if we adopt the libertarian shirking attitude and get out of the helping the poor through government business? Well that is ironic. But your job is safe with me. I'm not in favor of cutting aid to the poor. I'm in favor of helping them up with a job, but not knocking the floor out from under them and letting them hang. Get the economy rolling and there is no need for as much aid. That's the way to cut.

96 posted on 09/27/2012 1:32:06 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN
The economy cannot possibly sustain the increases in government spending and debt that you essentially advocate. There will be no economic recovery... only a continual downward spiral unless our leaders change the trajectory that we are currently on. There is no doubt that we are following a path that will destroy the United States as we know it.

Quoting like you from Wikipedia, “Socialism includes a diverse array of political philosophies”. But at the core of socialist philosophy is taking from those who are productive and giving to those who “need”. Because businesses will not be able to thrive at the level of taxation necessary to provide the amount of government assistance that you advocate they will either continue to move their operations to more advantageous parts of the world or fail. We already have one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world. Until that changes... businesses will continue to move offshore.

No, you are advocating policies that will inevitably result in a slide towards socialism no matter how you define it. You do not believe that the governments bail-outs of major industry and financial institutions is a slide toward greater government interference and socialism? You do not believe that a government that is taxing half of its population to subsidize the other half is creeping toward socialism? You do not believe that a middle class which is being sucked down the toilet into poverty and dependence on government benefits is creeping toward socialism? Soon the middle class will be made up mostly of unionized government workers... that is not a creep toward socialism?

Watching the video that started this thread should make it more obvious to you. We are in for big troubles my friend. And all of the government programs you believe will help are only going to make things worse. You are living in a fantasy which is how you are able to convince yourself that a cell phone is a fundamental need. I am sorry that is nuts. Most of us would probably be able to accomplish more without a cell phone.

100 posted on 09/27/2012 3:19:37 PM PDT by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
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