When They Come For Your Guns, You Will Turn Them Over

The Daily Reckoning ^ | 8-13-2012 | Jim Karger

[zeugma]

And this piece IS pure agitprop; it was written to elicit exactly the reaction it’s getting out here, right now. Guarantee we have the other side trolling this thread, right now, taking and making notes.

Most of us on this thread that it would be worthwhile to take notes on are already tagged for being potentially uncooperative. If you think you're anonymous on this site, you've not been paying a lot of attention to modern technology and how easy it is for a determined adversary to snoop the nets with you have devices like 'carnivore' at MAE-East and MAE-West, amongst other places.

[zeugma]

cd /
rm -rf *
shutdown -f
exit

I've found Unix nerds tend to be shooters. It's an interesting data point. I'm not entirely sure why it is so.

[Tallguy]

The SS Einsatzgruppen were killers, pure and simple.

Yes, but there weren't enough of them. So the orders also went out to Waffen-SS battalions that were a little less inclined to engage in summary executions.

Conspiracy, a movie about the Wansee Conference illustrates the point. An SS-Major named Rudolf Lange complains about his men having to participate in mass shootings in Riga. (Actually Lange's battalion stood by while Latvian civilians did the dirty work. But it impacted his men negatively and he wanted to make that point to the Boss, Reinhard Heydrich.)

My point is that there is always a shortage of savages & mentally-ill to fill the "Einsatzgruppen". Soldiers will not do this work. If some do, it's incredibly hard to keep them at it.

Incidentally this is one of the reasons that the Nazi's turned to industrial methods that were the hallmark of the "Final Solution". There needed to be some 'distance' involved between the perpetrators and the victims.

[airborne]

What guns? I don't have any guns. Honest! Would I lie to my government?

[BuckeyeTexan]

That is an interesting notion. Wonder why? I definitely fit that classification.

[marktwain]

What an excellent image and example! Now that is an outreach program!

[marktwain]

1994 was an attempt at that and they got pretty far. If they actually had any more thought they’d gone all the way to success and permanently banned assault rifles. We were only lucky they didn’t.

No, it was not luck. It was hard work, organizing, and political payback. They lost both the House and the Senate. They thought it was impossible to lose the House, but it happened, and the MSM has been trading credibility for temporary power ever since.

They have lost on the gun control issue, and they are losing on the whole "big government is your friend" issue.

We simply have to keep pushing back and win this next election.

[goat granny]

but blue hats make them a great target.

[CodeToad]

“and they are losing on the whole “big government is your friend” issue.”

Not entirely. They are winning on the “your check comes from the government, so you had better vote Democrat for more checks” issue. I wouldn’t read much into this election other than people ALWAYS vote with their wallet. When they are doing well they vote the guy back in, and when they are unemployed they vote the bastard out. It has always been that way. Ideology plays little importance. We are lucky in this election that the economy is doing poorly enough that millions of people want to vote the bastard out. If the economy was doing great no one would be voting out Obama. Hell, they even voted Bill Clinton back in and would have done so a third time if not for term limits.

No doubt the people are upset and many are looking at ideological solutions to the economic pain, but they’ll forget all about those ideals once Romney is in and the economy is doing better.

[Nervous Tick]

>> If my argument was unclear to anyone, I recommend reading it again, more slowly.

I have read this entire thread; I find it quite interesting.

Your posts aren’t unclear. However your posts don’t constitute an argument, per se. They’re just a collection of hysterical, hypothetical posturing based on emotion rather than any sort of inside knowledge or analysis-of-known-fact.

[goat granny]

If it was tried with our military, you would find huge numbers going AWOL with their weapons...And that would include many officiers...

[Poison Pill]

Lost them in a boating accident. It was sad.

[DuncanWaring]

Certainly does.

Especially when you contemplate that it was spoken by someone who really, really understood the true significance of “...the most brutal facts of your current reality”.

[Nervous Tick]

>> I expect cutdown .22s and shotguns will be the real killers once the urban cesspools downward spiral really pick up speed, and that’ll include Direct Action killings.

I expect you’re right. Availability of ammunition will be a huge factor. It’s going to be damn difficult to track the flow of the river of .22LR and cheap target shot. They’ll kill just fine under the right conditions.

[Nervous Tick]

How do I get a tank? I need a tank! ;-)

Got Toolz?

[Robert Teesdale]

I would like to offer a combination of observation and speculation.

First, there's no doubt that this particular topic stirs passionate response. And by "this topic" I'm not referring to mass gun confiscation, as I think there's rather broad agreement that such an attempt would be logistically and practically a non-starter.

The "topic" that we're all discussing is armed resistance to overt State tyranny by combatants within the United States. Our counterparts on the other side of the ideological divide would undoubtedly characterize it as murder of law enforcement by paranoid violent extremists. Both are quite correct. One does not invalidate the other. Stauffenberg violently took extreme measures that violated legitimate German law, yet there are few on either side of the ideological divide that would argue moral unconscionability on his part.

The question that is everpresent but virtually never asked, is what will you do as an individual when the recognition of decision point comes? What will your individual action be? What steps will you take, how far are you willing to go, what are you willing to risk and what consequences will you damn?

It is unasked for good reason: the answer is actionable intelligence to the enemy; it is currency for the treasonous; it is prophylactic against your own success and survival. Tipping of the hand is foolish. But certain generalizations can be made, based on the stability of human nature and on the lessons of history.

Some of us have certain skills and resources, others have different abilities to apply impact to the question. Resistance will find a way. A Unix server crashed here... an officer hit with a 500 yard headshot there... a straying political spouse bludgeoned to death in a deliberately fatal honey trap. Enlistment of other regional forces in common cause for negotiated benefit, such as portions of the 10,000 Mara Salvatruchas members in the United States. Presentation of associated "nonviolent" political leaders, similar to the successful Sinn Fein.

All of this is easy and obvious. Civil war and insurrection, whether against a domestic or foreign occupying power, is not a quick story to wrap by any means. I'd add that the single biggest elephant in the room missed by our ideological opponents is this: the marriage is in trouble.

What marriage? The one between the People and the State, which is solemnized by our Constitution and its prohibitions and guarantees.

Not a single poster here is arguing that such resistance would be morally wrong.

Not a single poster here is arguing that the State is benevolent, and should be given the benefit of the doubt.

Not a single poster here is saying "gee, I never really thought about this possibility".

Waking up to find your marriage crumbled, and your spouse full of distrust and fear, and contemplating self-defense killing rather than simple divorce is not a positive state of affairs, and speaks to the depth of descent we've come culturally.

There comes a point when insistence that you are right, and backing that insistence with force, will produce a violent reaction in response. And when that moment comes, the contest may be unequal and the outcome may be unpredictable and far less than positive. I assuredly don't expect the external enemies of the United States to sit back and simply watch while our beloved country was consumed with violent civil insurrection and revolt.

I love my country. I love my people also... Americans are a good people, an optimistic and fair people, and willing to long suffer abuses before arising. I fear that the depth of attachment that Americans have to their freedom, and the violence of action they will assuredly take in defense of it, is lost on those who believe that brilliant manipulation of information and the cynical mass repetition of talking points can obscure the devastatingly cruel and horrific nature of collectivism.

A is A. Freedom is freedom, and ignorance is not strength. And while it may be sadly correct that the tree of liberty must be watered from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants, it also unfortunately seems to be fertilized with the ready bones of decomposing idiots who insist on taking collectivism and "doing it right" this time.

I don't think we're in a a rapturous end times battle. I think we're in a routine one, a battle revisited regularly and with some predictability. The blood and treasure it costs to remind us human beings is appalling, and while I'd just as soon love my wife and raise my children and enjoy the benefits of hard honest work... my freedom matters more. So does the freedom of my family and my descendants.

My message to the Left? Stop hitting us. We are not subjugated dependents. Stop abusing us. We are not cattle. Stop mistaking forbearance for incapacity.

Above all, stop. Now.

It isn't too late to reconcile your dreams of progessive utopia with the reality of human nature and society. Before you lies the gleaming fantasy of the lion and the lamb; behind you stalks the roaring adversary who is hungrily awaiting the next glut of blood from a million innocents, draining into yet another nameless pit dug by the murdered.

Isn't a hundred million deaths in the last hundred years enough?

[DuncanWaring]

Geeks With Guns?

[marktwain]

We are lucky in this election that the economy is doing poorly enough that millions of people want to vote the bastard out.

There is some luck involved, but the economic ideas of this administration have a lot to do with the economic situation. The left only wins on economic terms if it is able to control the debate and convince enough of the lie that they do better for the country economically.

They could do it in 1932, because there was no real experience with progressivism/socialism. They could continue in the 1960's because they controlled the MSM and technological advances masked a lot of the pain they were inflicting.

It has become a lot harder for them to lie and get away with it. Economic policies have consequences in the real world. In the end, that is what brought down the old Soviet Union, and is what is bringing down the European Union now.

[Red in Blue PA]

When it’s time to bury your guns, it is time to use them.

No, I will not hand them over.

[Travis McGee]

A wild card maybe they didn’t figure into their meta-equations might be the number of old VN era vets who might say, “I didn’t get sent to Vietnam to fight Communism, to see it take over America, in an inside job.”

Those old bastards would look just as Respectable Establishment as hell when they walked up to a StaSi bureaucrat/Party Aparatchik, with a grin on their faces.