Posted on 08/10/2012 6:50:31 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
At a campaign stop yesterday in Iowa, Mitt Romney tossed out a laugh line that seemed to neatly sum up the core of conservative fears about our future as a country. "Entrepreneurs and business people around the world and here at home think that at some point America is going to become like Greece or like Spain or Italy," he said, before adding, "or like California -- just kidding about that one, in some ways."
Every good joke is supposed to have a little kernel of truth to it. And we all know that, in their most feverish nightmares, conservatives imagine the U.S. transforming into a giant version of the Golden State, with its big spending government, constant budget battles, aggressive regulators, and powerful unions. And the next step from there: the Mediterranean! (Cue the threatening Flamenco).
But is California really our very own economically nutty slice of Europe? Does it deserve to be lumped in with the black seep of the global economy? In short, no, not even close. If anything, Greece, Spain, and Italy would love to be in as good shape as California right now.
I'm not an expert in state finances, so I called up Standard & Poor's analyst Gabriel Petek for a tutorial. Last year, Petek published a report waiving off comparisons between California and Greece. Today, he says, the comparison is just as "superficial."
(Excerpt) Read more at theatlantic.com ...
Got to thinking about this - it doesn’t deal/mention the Pension hole that has been dug? In CA - the cities/counties are economically slaves to the State budget. With all of them filing bankruptcy, and the HUGE pension deficit Calpers has - I don’t think that shows up in these graphs.
Am I wrong?
California actually has some fairly decent job growth. The problem is that the state govt. spends too much and there are too many regulations. Personal income tax and cost of living is so high that many do not want to move there now.
RE: With all of them filing bankruptcy, and the HUGE pension deficit Calpers has - I don’t think that shows up in these graphs.
Yes, these UNFUNDED LIABILITIES are the canary in the coal mine. California is not (yet) Greece, but if this pension hole does not get fix, it will get there.
The corneal of truth I see is in the omission of the real unemployment figures. When you count all those who quit looking I suspect our real rate is around 20+/-3 pct.
“Entrepreneurs and business people around the world and here at home think that at some point America is going to become like Greece or like Spain or Italy,” he said, before adding, “or like California — just kidding about that one, in some ways.”
Too bad the author couldn’t try to understand the quote. California is the state that is in the worst shape. And California, despite its bad shape, continues to push policies that are very unfriendly to business. Thus, the Romney quote.
He never said that California = Greece. He hinted that businesses are concerned that it is headed that way.
The graphs provided by the author are irrelevant to the Romney quote. They are interesting, but irrelevant.
Bet they are NOT COUNTING kalifornias share of national debt and unfunded liabilities, which on a population basis would be about 1.5 trillion and 15 Trillion respectively...
First, No one says California is in as bad shape as Greece TODAY! The observations that have been made are that California is going in the same direction Greece was prior to their economic crisis. No knowledgeable person can disagree with that. The policies of California over the past few years are similar to those that put Greece into its current position.
Second, California and the U.S. have much larger and stronger economies than Greece. The difference between Greece and the U.S. is the difference between punching holes in the hull of a rowboat and punching holes in the hull of an ocean liner. The U.S. economy is so much stronger than Greece that it will take much longer to bring it down.
Third, comparing the debt of California to Greece is comparing apples and oranges. Greece is an entire country. California is part of the U.S. Californians are responsible not only for their own state debt but also part of the national debt of the U.S. The debt charts should include California's prorated share of the U.S. debt.
Fourth, the California charts totally ignore unfunded liabilities. The author probably does not even understand what they are.
California has a government that is corrupt and irresponsible. Its policies are hurting the California economy and raising the probability that in the future California will will suffer a financial crisis not unlike those of Greece, Spain and Italy.
Good thread! Thanks!
BTW, how about a thread showing:
1.) the yearly totals of actual number of people working in each of the last 10 years?
and 2.) the same data compared to Government and Private work force annual totals.
The purpose is to illustrate how much of our Nation’s “employment” is paid for by those of us who pay taxes.
Please ping me for that thread.
"Rome wasn't builit in a day", as they say, and similarly Athens wasn't destroyed in a day. It took the liberals a generation or two.
But is California really our very own economically nutty slice of Europe? Does it deserve to be lumped in with the black seep of the global economy? In short, no, not even close. If anything, Greece, Spain, and Italy would love to be in as good shape as California right now.
///
really? how many major cities in Greece, are currently filing for Bankruptcy.
...and those charts, prepared by the California Treasurer?
CA just passed a budget, that actually BUDGETS windfall profits from Facebook stock sales !
(so who knows, what other “tricks” their doing with all the numbers...)
...
further, Calpers alone just about has an unfunded liability greater than Greece, especially when they “mandate” an 8% gain each year!
...
10% unemployment? ...how about looking at the percent employed instead.
another recent article here at FR, showed that California has about 300% of the national average on welfare and foodstamps.
...and i am certain, that many FReepers who know more about ecomomics than me, could add a LOT more...
California State Treasurer as a source for the debt figure, eh? Of course that figure doesn’t include unfunded pension liabilities, which are the very thing that are driving California cities into bankruptcy. The unemployment rate figure is also dubious, since it’s surely the state-level U3 figure, rather than the U6 figure (and which is actually comparable to what European countries report? I’m guessing it’s the U6.)
Where? Companies are leaving the state faster than new ones start up. Unemployment rate is still one of the worst in the nation.
Why show only Greece, Spain and Italy - where is the rest of Europe? And what about California’s enormous share of the federal debt?
How much of the economic growth and GDP cited are the result of unsustainable government spending of imaginary (ie. borrowed wtih no hope or repayment) money. When the phony money dries up all those statistics disappear immediately.
/stoned
The fatal conceit of many critics is assuming the left doesn't know or understand. Wrong - they know perfectly well. The Atlantic is just one of many different vehicles to help establish policy 'progressive' debates. Omissions are intentional so that the focus remains on socialist solutions.
You win the prize. The libtard tries to make a false argument. Total Greek debt is about 550 Billion. Total California debt (including its share of the national debt) is about 1.5 Trillion. That means California is between 2 and 3 times further in debt than Greece.
Liberals assume the average American is operating at a 4th grade level and can't understand the real facts.
Crap, I do it one better.
Total Greek debt is about 550 billion.
Total California debt WITHOUT its share of the national debt is over 612 billion.
http://capoliticalnews.com/2011/10/25/ca-debt-612-billion-ca-media-totally-silent/
Guess the author missed that.
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