The Dangerous Self-Delusion of Some Conservatives

markamerica.com ^ | June 30. 2012 | Mark America

[ThermoNuclearWarrior]

There is a time to realize the fight that's been fought by Conservatives in the past decades has failed to even stop liberalism, and the unconstitutional expansion of the federal government. We can't reverse a damn thing when we are constantly fighting as hard as we can to stop new problems. The government is too out of control to reverse. There is no evidence we can even stop it's progression, so you can forget about reversing it. That's just a fact.
Many of us forget we were in the same hopeless position before we ever even heard of Obama. He just stepped it up to a new level making our collapse seem imminent, instead of something happening down the road. Reversing the tyranny of Obama’s rule is just a tiny step back when you look at the whole picture. It's time to accept the truth, and start looking at individual states and elections for our future.

The federal government is collapsing soon, and that's actually the only way to get rid of the unconstitutional powers it holds now. We let it go too far, and now it must be destroyed and rebuilt from the ground up. Our current government will never again be a constitutional government. I'm not saying it's a good end, but it's the only realistic outlook. I wish it was reversed back when it was still possible, but that time has long passed.

I use to read the opinions of Conservatives in the media who I respect, just to see if they could see a different outcome that was more positive; looking for anything a little brighter to hold on to, but it became obvious they saw the same bleak future as clear as me, or anyone else, could see. They don't have any idea how we are going to survive while ridding ourselves of this tyranny. They say elect Romney right now, and then they admit they have no idea what comes after that. They don't like looking that far into the future because it's depressing. We are fighting tooth and nail only to get back to the hopeless mess we were in before Obama. Our future is obvious to anyone who realistically looks at it, and who can accept the path our nation is going to take regardless of their acceptance. It is sad, but it's happening.

You don't fight a terminal illness all the way to death. There comes a time you have to realize it's pointless and cope with the truth. That's where we are now, and we need to be planning for the inevitable on a personal level, but also planning for the big picture with ideas to go own afterwords. It's coming, and hopefully the transition will go as smoothly as possible. States better be prepared for what is coming because it's not going to surprise most people. We can't change our federal government back to a constitutional government while working inside the corrupt system. It's time to ask our state leaders to demand freedom, and help elect those who will do so. It's a very minor risk when compared to the odds against our founding fathers who all put their lives on the line for what many thought was a doomed revolution. If only we could get anything similar whatsoever when it comes to character, intelligence, and bravery in a modern leader. I know things may end up even worse when it comes to our liberty, but I'm not going to pretend I'm living free now either. We are living under tyranny now, and I won't accept it just because things might get a lot worse fighting it.

It's a time for revolution. We have a constitutional right to refuse to live under tyranny. Our founding fathers made that clear. Anyone who thinks that it's untrue that we are living under tyranny should look at the situation closer. We are dealing with a tyranny that's far greater, and clear for everyone to see, than that we faced the first time around for god sake. I'm not talking about an armed revolution, but one where states just stop obeying the demands of our federal government. States should work together, bypassing the federal government, while coming up with plans to confront the federal government by refusing their unconstitutional authority. Once they do this they should not back down under any measures. All the way to letting the federal government know they can't regain power over the state without spilling blood. I don't think it would ever come to that in today's world, but the federal government has to know their is a big escalation, and consequences if it tries to take any step toward that. Draw a clear line in the sand and you won't get in an accidental situation that could end up bad for everyone. If they know the consequences they are less likely to take it there considering any order to occupy a state could easily just be ignored by any federal force.

Unfortunately their are a lot of Conservatives who will always refuse any measures outside of the current unconstitutional government, no matter how bad it gets. They can't accept the word revolution, or any talk of dissent against the government in any serious manner, based on ignorance that those ideas no longer apply. If they don't accept those ideas then they should admit they have agreed to accept tyranny. We literally have no more of a chance to reverse all the unconstitutional parts of our government from within that system, than Iraqis had in voting Saddam out of power back in those “elections” he use to get 100% in. Those who don't realize that what many, including me, thought was unthinkable not all that long ago is happening sooner than many thought, or maybe just hoped, would happen will be the same people wondering why everything fell apart around them when it does. These conservatives may have always talked about the unsustainable of the governments socialized spending, but they will still be surprised when they see what even they predicted, because it's not suppose to fall apart in their lifetime. They may say they have great respect and admiration of our founding fathers, but will dismiss many of their ideas because they see them in some fictional fantasized world instead of as the men who risked everything for freedom.

It's the same way so many Conservatives talk about our WW2 veterans being our greatest generation, and have such admiration for many of the leaders of that time, but then completely refuse supporting that type of war now based on moral issues. It's contradictory, and shows how little thought many put into forming their views. When you think about achieving total victory in a war extensively enough you realize you are glad you didn't have to make those decisions even though you know they were the right ones.

You think our founding fathers wouldn't oppose our current government? You think they would waste years trying to get things changed within a ststyem that makes it futile? The government would seem even more monstrous, and out of control to them than it does to us. Conservatives who rule out those options of revolution can't even comprehend a right given to us by our founding fathers to be used if needed.

The things that happened when our nation was being built may play out in a totally different manner, but they are just as valid today. We can accept to live in tyranny, or we can reject it. They are the ones who are left with the decision to commit violence against us, or to allow our freedom when we just refuse their demands. I don't think there is any excuses for most conservatives to stay inside what is a corrupt unconstitutional system that is obviously impossible to achieve victory within. Not for much longer anyway.

[MEG33]

We all have to vote as best we see fit..considering all the options..

[raccoonnookkeeper]

One has to ponder how far no compromise (in the form of a vote for a viable candidate, not an endorsement of the candidate’s ideas) will go, of course. I remember vividly reading, as a lurker, about how Sarah Palin was so dreadfully terrible a moral pit because she didn’t keep Bristol from that affair with Levi, or freeze Bristol (or even Levi) out once she did. The answer of course would be if she was being considered as elder of a church this would matter, but the political office of president? Good grief.

Anyhow if Obama remains as odious as he has, the membership of FR won’t be but a spit in the November ocean of “NO” that the general public gives Obama by the only way they understand — voting for Mitt.

[rogue yam]

You mean it's so self-evident that you can't point to any single example? I see.

You just don't ever say anything honest, do you?

[Gene Eric]

An excellent point, Kazan.

As a matter of strategy, do you want Obama to retain the Presidency?

[central_va]

Secession, was right then and is right now. Quickest way to freedom.

[Engraved-on-His-hands]

One of these men is the Father of Obamacare and the Father of Gay Marriage in America. The other man is Barack Obama.

[Jim Robinson]

Clothespin nose voters are one thing, but we have a growing vociferous (putting it politely) contingent of “Romney is a more conservative than Reagan Saint” that I’m having trouble digesting. Especially when they insist on trampling on conservative posters in their zeal to promote the RINO.

Romney is no conservative, never has been, never will be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OQoBxZZPqU&feature=player_embedded

[sickoflibs]

RE:”Not so fast! Repealing the mandate might be possible if the GOP has 51 senate votes AND the guts to do it in the face of network news and political ads showing poor people suffering and dying, AND Romney didn't veto it, but I think you would need 60 senate votes to overturn the parts about Pre-existing conditions, under 26 covered, birth control and breast X-rays, can't charge different rates based on sex.”

That comment looks very familiar.
GOP cowardliness is the biggest roadblock if they even win both houses AND the WH together. I don't expect much good from the Republican mandate candidate Romney.

[EternalVigilance]

Yep.

[EternalVigilance]

I’ve reached the point where I truly believe that the Republican Party wouldn’t implement the most important elements of conservatism even if you gave them 100% of the seats.

[SoConPubbie]

Much of the campaigning for Obama that is being done here on FR these days is conducted in a way that I have thought to be irrational and dishonest. I have never found fault with anyone for preferring that Obama be re-elected in November, but I have objected strenuously to the unreason and falsehood contained in so many of the pro-Obama posts. Now, since the USSC Obamacare decision, we have the added elements of nihilism and despair in the mix. Well, I am opposed to these attitudes as well, and I forthrightly have said so and explained why on this thread.

Either prove it Rogue Yam or drop this line of duplicitous attack.

Prove the lies you just posted by going through the posting history of the Freepers you have implied are doing this type of crap and post the proof.

[Tau Food]

You just don't ever say anything honest, do you?

I try to be honest, rogue yam, I do try.

If you live in California, I honestly don't think it will matter (in terms of the outcome of the election) who you vote for in the presidential election. And, I honestly think you agree with that and that you know your vote won't mean anything to anyone but you.

Given that fact, I honestly think that you will vote for the candidate you like best, the candidate with a philosophy most like your own. I honestly think that you should vote for the candidate you like best.

I honestly think that you should take pride in your candidate and tell others what you most like about him. I honestly think that you should try to avoid feeling shame about your choice. If you do feel some shame about your choice, I honestly believe you should consider voting for someone you would be proud to vote for this November. And, since your vote can't affect the outcome, I honestly think you should avoid trying to justify your vote in terms of any need to try to affect the outcome because I honestly think no one will ever treat that claim seriously.

Finally, I honestly think you should be honest about your reasons for supporting Romney. You're entitled to have an opinion and there isn't any obvious reason why you should feel any shame about your feelings. I honestly want to see you take greater pride in your opinions.

Beyond that, I honestly don't think I can help you. ;-)

[CyberAnt]

“Did any of that change this week?”

Nope! .. and I just keep wondering if Roberts sacrificed his reputation in order to save the Republic ..??

Sometimes America needs a shock treatment in order to get it’s act together. I think that’s exactly what Roberts did.

For years the dems have tried to tell us that the Supremes are the be all end all - once the court says whatever - then it’s sealed forever. WRONG!

According to the Constitution, the govt is composed of 3 separate - but equal - branches of govt. Meaning .. if the Supremes rule isn’t palatable, then the Congress has the right to rewrite the law and try again.

Since we can’t read Roberts’ mind - we have only his writings to tell us how he sees the court’s role. I’ve read enough of his transcripts to believe Roberts is a died in the wool conservative - so my only explanation for his actions is - he wanted to send a shockwave into the electorate to tell them - you hold all the cards - it’s up to you to select somebody who will uphold your beliefs. When you make a mistake - you simply re-elect someone else.

The ball’s in OUR court - it’s up to us to change all this bad policy. If we decide to sit on our hands like many did in 2006 - then we’ll get exactly what we voted for - NOTHING! I hope we are a lot smarter this election. Romney may not be the perfect choice (but nobody is the “perfect” choice); whatever things we might dislike about him have to be put aside because if we don’t - this country is doomed.

[rogue yam]

...we have a growing vociferous (putting it politely) contingent of “Romney is a more conservative than Reagan Saint” that I’m having trouble digesting.

Jim, I have never seen anyone on FR describe Romney as being either more conservative than Reagan, equally as conservative as Reagan, or anything like a saint.

Are you sure that you're not letting your intense antipathy toward Romney color your reading of posts by those who prefer that he defeat Obama in November?

[rogue yam]

The anti-Romney derangement is plain for all to see and you are one of the worst offenders.

I will not submit to your demands that I waste my time.

[rogue yam]

Finally, I honestly think you should be honest about your reasons for supporting Romney.

I have been remarkably honest and plainspoken on political threads on this site daily for the last several months (and before).

Your accusations that I have been otherwise are nonsense.

[AlanGreenSpam]

<> Suppose the Repubs wait until Obama is out of office to push a repeal thru Congress and the Senate? Seems like a good strategy. If we can trust Mitt to follow thru on his words that he doesn't think Obamacare belongs at the Federal level. It seems foolish to "waste" the House repeal vote when Obutthole is still President. Or could they try to repeal it again after Jan 21, 2013 if our current Senate knocks it down and/or Obambi vetoes?

[rogue yam]

The ball’s in OUR court - it’s up to us to change all this bad policy.

I don't have a good idea of what CJ Roberts did, and I have no idea what he was really thinking or intending, but I certainly agree with you that it is up to us and the time is now.

Obamacare is an abomination. If it continues to be the law of the land that will cause us no end of trouble. We have our best and perhaps last opportunity to repeal Obamacare on November 6th.

I tend to be more incremental and tactical in my political thinking than many here on FR, but I really think the idea of "sending a message to the GOP-e" in November is a preposterously expensive and risky approach.

I'm going to campaign and vote GOP all the way for the next four months.

[CyberAnt]

I’m with ya!!