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To: W. W. SMITH
You just don't get it. Follow the small minority of kooks, that is your choice.

I cannot find ONE place ANYWHERE that says "citizen parents" are required to be NBC. Not ONE PLACE; and apparently neither can anyone else. Even Vattel said that the English have different rules when he described indegenes and that is their right. Our country is based on English law.

Madison himself said, "It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States.”

Case closed as far as I am concerned. If you think you know better than Madison, then go for it Chief but that is not supporting the constitution in my opinion.

95 posted on 06/23/2012 1:40:54 PM PDT by New Jersey Realist (America: home of the free because of the brave)
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To: New Jersey Realist
I cannot find ONE place ANYWHERE that says "citizen parents" are required to be NBC.

What you will admit to being able to find means very little. The Minor court required parents by rejecting any other definition of citizenship without them as doubtful, and by exclusively characterizing the class of children born to parents as NBC. Otherwise, there was no reason to make any distinction. Minor didn't argue she was born of citizen parents.

Even Vattel said that the English have different rules when he described indegenes and that is their right.

This is obvious misdirection. Vattel was desribing naturalization when he talked about the English, not indigenes.

In other states, as in England and Poland, the prince cannot naturalize a single person, without the concurrence of the nation, represented by its deputies. Finally, there are states, as, for instance, England, where the single circumstance of being born in the country naturalizes the children of a foreigner.
Madison himself said, "It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States.”

Yes, Madison said place is the MOST CERTAIN criterion, but he doesn't say its the ONLY criterion. And he shows that it's not the only criterion in the next sentence following what you quoted:

Mr. Smith founds his claim upon his birthright; his ancestors were among the first settlers of that colony.

Ouch! His birthright is claimed upon his ancestors. Why, that's jus sanguinis, not place of birth.

101 posted on 06/25/2012 6:38:13 AM PDT by edge919
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