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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop; P-Marlowe
It's not about nationalism, it's about blessing versus curse:...And I can't judge which sin is worse:

Those are points of concern for me, A-G, and they are worthy of serious biblical reflection. I intend to do just that, because the stakes are very high.

The issues as I see them are, and please correct me if you see the wording needing to be different:

Your concern is valid, AG, so it is imperative we discover the biblical answer to such questions. I'm truly interested and this is not some political game on my part. I suggest we gather the biblical evidence book by book that speaks to each of these issues once we've worded them correctly. Please take a turn at helping me word them correctly, and/or add any additional issues you think should be included.

Once we've established the proper issues, we'll go book-by-book (or section by section, ie., pentateuch, histories, poetics, prophets, gospels, etc.) through the entire Bible. What do you think? Will this consume time you don't currently have to devote?

Let God be true and every man a liar. Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia.

So far as the facts on the ground, I think we agree on those. (1) Obama is worse for Israel than is Romney who is a personal friend of Bibi Netanyahu. (2) Both Israel and the US sacrifice children to abortion, as a result of their turning to modern gods such as humanism, statism, etc.

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Israel

Clauses 312-321 of the 1977 penal code limit the circumstances when an abortion is legal in Israel. Abortions can only be performed in Israel by licenced gynecologists in recognized medical facilities that are specifically and publicly recognized as a provider of abortions.[1] Abortions must be approved by the termination committee.

[edit] Circumstances under which abortion is legalThe termination committee approves abortions, under sub-section 316a,[1] in the following circumstances:

1.The woman is younger than seventeen (the legal marriage age in Israel) or older than forty.
2.The pregnancy was conceived under illegal circumstances (rape, statutory rape etc.), an incestuous relationship, or outside of marriage.
3.The fetus may have a physical or mental birth defect.
4.Continued pregnancy may put the woman's life in risk, or damage her physically or mentally.

In practice, most requests for abortion are granted, and leniency is shown especially under the clause for emotional or psychological damage to the pregnant woman. According to the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics report from 2004, 19,500 legal abortions were performed in Israel in 2003, while 200 requests for abortion were denied. Most abortions were authorized because the woman was unmarried (42%), because of illegal circumstances (11%), health risks to the woman (about 20%), age of the woman (11%) and fetal birth defects (about 17%).[2]


1,165 posted on 06/19/2012 3:34:36 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins; betty boop; P-Marlowe
Thank you so much for taking my concerns to heart, dear brother in Christ! And yes, I would like to pursue the issues through the Scriptures.

My apology for taking so long to reply. My niece's husband died in a motorcycle accident Friday. He was buried yesterday. So now I have time to spend on this project.

The issues as you worded them:

1. A Christian must support the modern political state of Israel regardless of any act they might take due to God's "blessing versus cursing" promise in the Bible.

2. The sin of killing infants is greater than the sin of disloyalty to the modern state of Israel.

The issues modified to my perspective:

1. People will be blessed or cursed by God for their treatment of the offspring (physical or spiritual) of Abraham. Therefore, the well being of Americans is tied to our treatment of the present nation of Israel.

2. The sin of murder (whether the victim is born or not yet born) is not greater than any other sin in the Law.


1,212 posted on 06/20/2012 8:40:30 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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