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To: naturalman1975

Only a subject would try to sell the Princess living at Windsor Castle under totally controlled security conditions and attending a theatrical 3 week course down the street as doing military service.

Less than five months even enrolled in service although always stationed at Windsor Castle for her residence, and she leaves as a Captain.

About the only thing you say that I don’t is that you keep making the unsubstantiated claim that while she was largely separated from other people, lived in ultra high security and isolation as the future Queen of England living with the King at Windsor castle, that she inexplicably got to drive around England driving a military truck (during the day, going back to the castle at night, ‘to save money on food’) without security for a number of weeks or a couple of months to earn those promotions all the way to Captain that was normal for all the girls.

“In keeping with her power and status of high birth, on her 16th birthday she was appointed Colonel of the Grenadier Guards during WWII (during 1942).
The Grenadier Guards training element was stationed at her home, Windsor Castle as security and personal escorts for her.”

“”She was enlisted as 230873 Second Subaltern Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Windsor in the Auxiliary Territorial Service, the ATS, [March, 1945] and sent to train as a transport officer at Camberley. The course was three weeks and Princess Elizabeth did not associate too closely with her fellow trainees.

She lunched in the officers’ mess and slept the night at Windsor; 50 years later, her grandsons would eat cadet food, iron their own uniforms, polish their own boots and be shouted at on the drill square.

Despite her kid-glove treatment, Princess Elizabeth greatly appreciated her spell in the ATS, believing it gave her a confidence she had previously lacked

The war in Europe was now drawing to a close and on May 8, 1945, the two princesses were allowed out of the Palace with their Guards officer friends to mingle with the crowds in the Mall and join in the shouts of “We want the King” “”


29 posted on 06/06/2012 8:02:58 AM PDT by ansel12 (Massachusetts Governors, where the GOP now goes for it's Presidential candidates.)
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To: ansel12
Only a subject would try to sell the Princess living at Windsor Castle under totally controlled security conditions and attending a theatrical 3 week course down the street as doing military service.

I was born a British subject, but I am now a citizen of both Australia, and the United Kingdom. If you think the word subject means anything different from citizen, I hate to disillusion you, but it's just a word that is defined in a law.

As for the '3 week course', that is simply an inaccurate description of the entirely of her service. As a matter of fairly easily obtainable public record, she served from February until late July 1945 - between five and six months total service. The three weeks was simply the first training phase. It was not her entire service.

I do not defend the Queen because I am her subject. I defend the Queen from lies because I would defend any public figure from lies when I knew them to be untrue.

The Queen's military service was active service. That is a fact. Yes, she went through a three week basic training course. Then she went through a six week advanced course during which time she was already driving as a transport driver. This is also a fact. At the completion of that six week course, she was considered fully qualified in her rating and undertook the normal duties of a rated ATS officer-driver for approximately three months until she was demobilised. At her demobilisation, she was promoted to Junior Commander (roughly equivalent to Captain) but that was a purely honourary promotion but that only occurred at her demobilisation.

About the only thing you say that I don’t is that you keep making the unsubstantiated claim that while she was largely separated from other people, lived in ultra high security and isolation as the future Queen of England living with the King at Windsor castle, that she inexplicably got to drive around England driving a military truck (during the day, going back to the castle at night, ‘to save money on food’) without security for a number of weeks or a couple of months to earn those promotions all the way to Captain that was normal for all the girls.

If I was in the UK currently and had access to the records there, I could pretty easily substantiate my claims but unfortunately (in more ways than one) I'm not there at the moment. But what I'm saying is not at all controversial, nor anything that isn't fairly widely known. But I'm not claiming what you are actually saying anyway.

I do not know if the Princess spent every night at Windsor Castle, although she certainly did during her three week initial training period. However, during her active service, she was stationed at Aldershot, which is less than twenty miles from Windsor Castle. It was entirely normal for women in the Auxiliary services - the ATS, the WRNS, or the WAAF - to 'live at home' if they happened to be stationed near their home or those of their parents. That is a fact. And most of the driving ATS personnel did were round trips of a few hours - longing driving tasks were in the hands or army transport. It is quite likely she did return to Windsor Castle each evening to sleep. That did not preclude her being on active service.

Her promotion to Junior Commander was not routine - but as I have said repeatedly that occurred at the time she was demobbed - it was not part of her active service. Incidentally, she was subsequently promoted to Brigadier in 1949, also in an honourary capacity and that wasn't part of her active service either. Her active service was five months as a Second Subaltern and Acting Subaltern. Her subsequent honourary military service saw her rise to Brigadier while still a Princess and subsequently Commander-In-Chief when she became Queen. These are honourary positions but are distinct from her active service. And that is routine for the Royal Family. The Prince of Wales is now an Honourary Admiral - but his substantive naval rank remains Lieutenant because that is the rank he reached while serving. Yes, she has a lot of honourary service - that does not change the fact she has some active service, including some war service as well.

“In keeping with her power and status of high birth, on her 16th birthday she was appointed Colonel of the Grenadier Guards during WWII (during 1942). The Grenadier Guards training element was stationed at her home, Windsor Castle as security and personal escorts for her.”

You seem to be confusing an honourary appointment with actual military service. Members of the Royal Family routinely hold honourary rank in particular regiments or units - but that is totally distinct from their actual military rank. When Prince William married last year, he did so in the uniform of a Colonel of the Irish Guards - because he is their Colonel-in-Chief. When on active duty, however, he is a Flight-Lieutenant of the Royal Air Force, and that is the uniform he wears. Yes, the Princess Elizabeth was given the honourary position of Colonel of the Grenadier Guards when she was sixteen and she's subsequently acquired dozens of other similar ceremonial positions. But that is completely separate from her active service rank and service.

The fact is, what you have read is a hit-piece by somebody who doesn't like the Queen. It has no more validity or accuracy than many of the attacks on the service of former President Bush in the Air National Guard, including the scurrilous story that helped to end the career of Dan Rather. Some people like to publish articles misrepresenting the military service of certain people for their own political ends. And sometimes people believe them.

An article that talks about only three weeks of a period lasting over five months as if it represents all of the five month period - surely any thinking person should be wondering what is being left out, right from the start. Quite a lot in this case.

31 posted on 06/06/2012 11:14:47 PM PDT by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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