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To: ElkGroveDan; Sherman Logan
I refer, of course, to EGD's #24, which your reply did not begin to handle, as far as dissipating the import of EGD's point, that the people defend marriage solidly, whereas your argument rests on the reliability of elected officials' pliancy and availability to listen to reason, from the perverts' point of view, who come to the table well-prepared with vast flushes of ready political cash. Which is why, it is said by some, the Bush campaign in 2000 threw open the doors to the Loggies even as Karl Rove was lying to the Christian Coalition about the sanctity of marriage and Judaeo-Christian morality in a Bush Administration. (Bush then went out and appointed more homosexuals to high-profile jobs than any president in history.)

[Your #27] I will be highly surprised if such an amendment ever even comes to the floor in the House or Senate, much less receiving 2/3 of the vote, much less 3/4 of the states ratifying.

As I mentioned in my previous post, the Framers provided a way for the People to end-run a faithless body of legislators, both as to the writing and to the ratification of amendments to the Constitution.

Amendments only pass when they aren’t controversial. The system the Founders designed requires overwhelming public support both nationally and regionally.

This statement is incorrect. The 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments were ratified over the dead bodies of the citizenry of several States, which were made to ratify them at gunpoint in a "reorganization" that was originally masterminded by the evil John Quincy Adams, who suggested civil war as a "way around" the Constitution, to obtain power over the Southern States without their consent, using the rubric of federal power to guarantee each State a republican form of government ..... after the federal faction's liking. The objectors being mostly dead on the battlefield, the amendments carried, except for Amendment 14, which is "deemed" ratified by the victors, and made so by the Army. Repeatedly. Down to the present day.

These are extreme examples, you will object -- but I will aver that they are sufficient to falsify your statement and overthrow its authority.

I would also assert that Amendments 18 and 19 also carried by very narrow margins and were not widely popular, so much so that the 18th, the Volstead Act, was repealed; but unfortunately, we are stuck with the consequences, probably fatal, of woman suffrage.

68 posted on 06/04/2012 8:28:01 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: lentulusgracchus
As I mentioned in my previous post, the Framers provided a way for the People to end-run a faithless body of legislators, both as to the writing and to the ratification of amendments to the Constitution.

Nope. 2/3 of the state legislatures must pass a resolution requesting a Convention to propose amendments. Congress then calls such a convention, presumably specifying how the convention members are chose, since the Constitution does not say. This Convention can can then propose whatever amendments it pleases, not just an anti-gay marriage or pro-life one.

Congress then decides whether ratification by 3/4 of the states will be done by convention (again setting the rules for choosing such a convention) or by state legislatures.

IOW, Congress and the state legislatures are heavily involved in this entire process. There is no "end-around" effectively provided in the Constitution.

Also, as stated, I fail to see why delegates to a convention chosen under rules established by Congress would differ greatly from congressmen.

BTW, I would cheerfully support any such amendment that gets to a point where it has a reasonable chance of passing.

Till then I will not waste my time on it, anymore than I spend vast amounts of time deciding how I'll spend the money when I win PowerBall.

I don't really have time to pursue this any farther. I envy you your delusions, but choose not to share them.

Have a good day, and good luck with your plans.

70 posted on 06/04/2012 8:59:07 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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