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To: GJones2
The first chapter of Romans refers more to the practices of polytheistic idolaters than to what we see with an agnostic like Darwin (a mild-mannered person, if I recall correctly, who had once wanted to be a clergyman)

Honestly, I find your addition of qualifiers to the cited passage a bit disingenuous. I don't know how much more general the apostle could have been than "...the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness...," as he goes on to pen what is universally acknowledged to be the most comprehensive statement of Christian doctrine in the entirety of the New Testament. Nor do I see any justification for said qualifier unless you are prepared to defend arguing in reverse from the specific to the general (not that there aren't appropriate places for that) with every contextual indicator pointing in the exact opposite direction.

Further, it should be clear to any observer not blinkered by cliches' that being mild of manner tells one nothing of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

That you do not recognize the importance of Paul's statements here is tragic in that the whole of the Christian rationale for God's judgement of those who have never heard of Judeo-Christianity rests on it. Without this rationale, there is no biblical justification for the twin claims of God's justice, and God's judgement of all mankind.

Finally, that you are still hung on the "why does God allow" question, as demonstrated by the posts you referred me to, indicates an orientation of one trying to fit God into his own world instead of one trying to fit into God's world. As long as God is in the dock, instead of you, you can expect no insight into the nature of our existence: only learning.

108 posted on 05/23/2012 9:03:59 AM PDT by papertyger ("And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if..."))
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To: papertyger

They who “...changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things” [Romans 1:23] sound like idolaters to me. I have no reason to be disingenuous about that. I went on to agree that the first chapter of Romans “...seems to say that God’s existence and qualities are ‘manifest’ but because people defy him anyway, he causes them to disbelieve” (which I thought was your main point about disbelief).

Where we disagree is that I don’t believe that’s true. I think some persons disbelieve things that they’d like to believe, not as a result of defiance but simply because they can’t convince themselves that they’re true.

And, yes, of course, I’m judging with my own mind. The only thing people have to judge with is their own minds, including when they agree with others, or with what they believe to be the word of God.


109 posted on 05/23/2012 10:35:01 AM PDT by GJones2 (Darwin mad at God?)
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