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College: 'Best Investment' or Big Risk? (The financial return for a 4-year degree may surprise you)
Smart Money ^ | 05/07/2012 | Jack Hough

Posted on 05/07/2012 2:35:03 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

By

College is the best investment you can make, President Obama told students last month at the University of Colorado.

As a metaphor for the benefits of education, that statement is fine. But taken as a claim about the financial returns of a college degree, it poses two problems.

The first is that students and their families still lack sufficient data to estimate long-term returns for specific college degrees the way investors do with stocks and bonds.

The second problem is one of investment risk. Stock investors can manage risk by buying a diverse basket of shares, but a college student bets on a single asset: himself.

That makes it crucial that students and their families understand the factors that affect the risk and return of a college investment in order to swing the math in their favor.

College brings higher pay: $1,053 a week for the median bachelor's degree holder last year, versus $638 for a high school graduate with no college, says the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. Last year's unemployment rate was 4.9% for college grads versus 9.4% for those with no college.

The College Board, a not-for-profit association, calculated in a 2010 report (based on 2008 data) that a typical student who enters a four-year college at age 18 and borrows his way through earns enough by age 33 to make up for his costs, including foregone wages and loan interest.

If a bond paid for itself that quickly, the return would be between 5% and 6% a year. That's a handsome payoff; stocks have historically returned around 7% a year after inflation. And it says nothing of college's other benefits, such as enlightenment, fun and higher job satisfaction.

Two big caveats: The College Board math assumes everyone goes to a public college. Those usually cost less than private ones -- often a lot less -- and that skews returns higher. The report also doesn't account for dropouts or extra college years. Only 56% of students who enroll in a four-year college earn a bachelor's degree within six years, according to a report last year by the Harvard Graduate School of Education.

PayScale, a Seattle data firm, examines the links between pay and variables like colleges and majors. Its analysis, which also ignores dropouts but accounts for students who take longer to complete their degrees, finds an average yearly return of 4.4% for degrees from 853 schools. That assumes students get financial aid, as most do.

Returns vary sharply; they are negative for more than 100 schools and over 11% a year for ones like Harvey Mudd College in California, the Georgia Institute of Technology and the University of Virginia. Dartmouth, Harvard, Stanford and Princeton are over 10%, but so is Queens College in New York -- where state residents pay just over $5,000 a year in tuition, versus about $41,000 for Stanford.

The worst returns tend to come from schools whose programs focus on nursing, criminal justice, sociology and education, says Katie Bardaro, an analyst at PayScale. The best returns are often from schools with strong engineering, computer science, economics and natural-science programs.

There's a flip side: "It's a lot harder to successfully graduate from those engineering programs," says Ms. Bardaro.

PayScale's analysis doesn't show how a specific degree from one school compares with that same degree from another school. "Until we know that, students, school counselors and policy makers are flying blind," says Mark Schneider, former U.S. Commissioner of Education Statistics and vice president of American Institutes for Research, a think tank.

Mr. Schneider set up a data firm, College Measures, to collect such data, and hopes to report his findings later this year. In the meantime, the U.S. Department of Education is set to release "gainful employment" data as soon as this coming week, including loan-repayment rates and debt-to-income ratios. The information is meant to show which schools are putting federal aid to good use, but it will also provide clues to returns.

Until we can predict college returns more accurately, students and their families should think in terms of reducing investment risk, says Richard Vedder, an Ohio University professor and director of the Center for College Affordability and Productivity, a Washington-based advocacy group. After all, outstanding student loans now eclipse total credit-card debt, and even bankruptcy filers don't typically get out from under their school loans.

Start with a frank assessment of performance. High school students with high grades and excellent test scores are likely to go to good schools and earn high returns on their investment, says Mr. Vedder. Middling performers can reduce risk by going to low-cost state and community colleges, perhaps transferring to another school after two years if they do well.

For that matter, anything that cuts college costs reduces investment risk, says Jennifer Ma, a College Board analyst. Living at home for the first two years of school won't do wonders for a student's social life, but it's likely to boost his returns.

Mr. Schneider says students should compare net college costs after projected aid. (They can approximate net costs using the government's College Navigator tool, nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator.) The riskiest investment is a high-cost liberal-arts college that lacks a strong brand name and doesn't offer much aid, says Mr. Schneider. By contrast, a high-cost school with a strong brand and plenty of aid may be a "good buy."

PayScale's Ms. Bardaro says students should research carefully the pay they are likely to secure before deciding how much to spend on college. After all, tuition and fees have increased 184% in 20 years after accounting for inflation, but wages for college grads have risen just 9%, according to Labor Department data.

Mr. Obama's investment tip is well-intentioned, but in college as on Wall Street, returns aren't guaranteed. —Jack Hough is a columnist at SmartMoney.com. Email: jack.hough@dowjones.com



TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: college; investment; risk
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1 posted on 05/07/2012 2:35:16 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Here in the oil patch If you have a degree in petroleum engineering, petroleum geology or petroleum land management and augment it with an internship you are pretty much guaranteed a job after graduation paying up to $100k.


2 posted on 05/07/2012 2:39:57 PM PDT by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: SeekAndFind
One of the best moves of all would be to get Fedzilla out of the student loan business altogether.

An excellent college in our area (Grove City) has their own group of lenders and don't allow their kids to get hooked on the easy to get into debt terms of Fedzilla. I believe Hillsdale College in Michigan does likewise.

If lenders charged loan rates commensurate with risk, kids would be paying 10% or more to go into useless majors like Ethnic or Gender Studies and 2% or 3% to go into useful majors such as nursing and engineering.

3 posted on 05/07/2012 2:42:41 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: SeekAndFind
"Mr. Obama's investment tip is well-intentioned,"

No, it is not. It is intentioned to get more business for the now government student loan business, to get kids more indoctrinated by socialists, to get people to thinking that they are too good to be skilled tradesmen like Plumbers and Electricians who can earn much more than your average liberal arts college hack.

Although I'll admit that it will definitely pay off if you are going for a Government job... Especially if you are also a member of a 'protected minority'.

4 posted on 05/07/2012 2:44:25 PM PDT by LegendHasIt
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To: Vigilanteman

RE: An excellent college in our area (Grove City) has their own group of lenders and don’t allow their kids to get hooked on the easy to get into debt terms of Fedzilla

_________________

It is no coincidence that Prof. Walter Williams ( one of Rush Limbaugh’s favorite subs ) is going to be their 2012 graduation commencement speaker this coming May 19.


5 posted on 05/07/2012 2:48:21 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

I’m just about to graduate with a major on Women’s Studies? Does anyone know what kind of ROI I might get for this degree?


6 posted on 05/07/2012 2:58:18 PM PDT by MNDude
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To: SVTCobra03

Here in the oil patch If you have a degree in petroleum engineering, petroleum geology or petroleum land management and augment it with an internship you are pretty much guaranteed a job after graduation paying up to $100k.

Here outside the oil patch if you are a high school dropout but can program in Java, C++, C# or any other popular computer language, which most 16 year olds can do, you can make over $100k.


7 posted on 05/07/2012 3:03:22 PM PDT by CodeToad
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To: SeekAndFind

“College brings higher pay: $1,053 a week for the median bachelor’s degree holder last year, versus $638 for a high school graduate with no college”

I tend to believe the difference in pay has more to do with motivation and intelligence than it does with “collage”, per se.

I’m a high school drop-out but have worked my way into a $100K a year job.

But that took a lot of work and self-starting.


8 posted on 05/07/2012 3:15:39 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (Burning the Quran is a waste of perfectly good fire.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I don’t even have to read the comments to know that there will be some who mindlessly say: “Well, they should major in a worthwhile degree, any of the engineering disciplines.” These ignorant statements assume that everyone off the street can handle an engineering curriculum and that just ain’t so.


9 posted on 05/07/2012 3:20:34 PM PDT by OldPossum
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To: MNDude

Does life experience count?

If it does, then I have been “studying” Women all of my life and I still don’t understand them and I have spent a fortune trying to. :)


10 posted on 05/07/2012 3:21:43 PM PDT by dhs12345
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To: OldPossum

“These ignorant statements assume that everyone off the street can handle an engineering curriculum and that just ain’t so.”

If it was easy, everyone would do it would not pay so much. What’s ignorant about that?


11 posted on 05/07/2012 3:30:39 PM PDT by beef (Who Killed Kennewick Man?)
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To: OldPossum

Q: How does an engineer get an artist off his front porch?

A: Pay him for the pizza!

Bada-Bump!


12 posted on 05/07/2012 3:34:31 PM PDT by beef (Who Killed Kennewick Man?)
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To: OldPossum; SeekAndFind; SVTCobra03; Vigilanteman; LegendHasIt; MNDude; CodeToad; Psycho_Bunny; ...

Spending $495 to $895 and three days here would probably do more for your youngster that $400,000 and 4 years of college ever will:

http://www.tomhopkins.com/boot_camp.shtml?Screen=boot_camp

My late father grew up during the depression (he was born in 1925) and many times told me that most salesmen had money and enough to eat while most other people were unemployed and nearly starved.

If they or you feel they must go to college, here’s a school that doesn’t require tuition, every student is a work/study:

http://www.cofo.edu/


13 posted on 05/07/2012 3:36:40 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (Ich habe keinen Konig aber Gott)
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To: dhs12345

Lol! You’ve been snookered! Mystery is the unbreakable part of a woman’s genetic code! ;)


14 posted on 05/07/2012 3:43:16 PM PDT by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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To: OldPossum

My undergrad degree was in engineering. To obtain it you had to do multi-disciplinary studies in other 300 level engineering courses. The toughest for me was machine design, under mech E. I worked my butt off and still got a C-. Some people just have the brains for it. I don’t consider myself dumb, but some of my classmates just had a knack for it.


15 posted on 05/07/2012 3:47:34 PM PDT by boop (I hate hippies and dopeheads. Just hate them. ...Ernest Borgnine)
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To: SeekAndFind

I have a sister who has a masters degree in material science engineering from a brand name U. She sure did get a high paying job right out of school but then life happened and she got married and started having kids. When the kids were all in school she went job hunting for a part time gig found a town clerk job and then went to the state labor board to get her pay raised to minimum age. Right now she is back in school to get an RN. Those engineering degrees need upkeep and cont ed along the way. I have told my college age kids to skip all the drama and get their RN right out of high school at the local comm college then they can go pretty much anywhere get a job if needed. I think they both would really rather have businesses to run but the RN is a good back up just in case.


16 posted on 05/07/2012 3:50:25 PM PDT by scottteng (Tax government employees til they quit and find something useful to do)
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To: MNDude
I’m just about to graduate with a major on Women’s Studies? Does anyone know what kind of ROI I might get for this degree?

Depends. Are you going into pimping or pandering?

17 posted on 05/07/2012 3:52:48 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The meek shall not inherit the Earth)
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To: SVTCobra03

“Here in the oil patch If you have a degree in petroleum engineering, petroleum geology or petroleum land management and augment it with an internship you are pretty much guaranteed a job after graduation paying up to $100k.”

Patch being located where?


18 posted on 05/07/2012 3:55:05 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: scottteng

I have a degree in computer science. I’ve been a SAHM for 16 years. I would like to go back to work, but I don’t know what I could do at this point.

We’re in California, and the economy sucks here. A few years ago, I think I could have gotten a job, but not now.


19 posted on 05/07/2012 3:59:10 PM PDT by luckystarmom
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To: boop

My husband and I both have our engineering degrees. Our son is graduating high school. He has no interest in being an engineer. He’s brilliant at math, but doesn’t like science. He even has told us that the kids that are going into engineering like to figure out how things work and how to build things, and he does not have that interest.

My husband and I know he’s right, so we are not pushing engineering.

Right now, our son wants to major in economics with a minor in statitics and maybe a minor in accounting. He thinks he’ll need to get his master’s at some point.


20 posted on 05/07/2012 4:03:05 PM PDT by luckystarmom
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