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3. Trials in our church: FWIW, think of the US system of rights given to defendants in our courts, and you have the Methodist judicial system almost to a T. Now try to convict someone under that system when rules of evidence are virtually the same. A part of me appreciates that protection, because it's the way I would be treated if someone charged me with something, but it also means that those who are vociferous on the streets clam up in the courts. Just a thought: how do you PROVE someone is a homosexual? Unless they're willing to stand proudly and affirm it, then you're looking for videotape that doesn't exist.

What about that minister who admitted she is a lesbian and basically just got a wrist slap? She should have been defrocked. IIRC, she admitted her lesbianism. Yet, AFAIK, she is still a minister in the UMC.

I have struggled for years about whether to leave the UMC or not. I have left. I am now a Baptist. It is amazing to me how little my soul was being fed in the UMC until I found a church that actually believes and practices soul-filling sermons, Sunday Schools, etc. I couldn't tell you the last time I heard my UMC minister actually preach the Gospel from the pulpit. THAT is a sad commentary on the state of affairs in too many UMC congregations around the country. Yet, we hear entirely too much 'social justice' bs. This is the undoing of the UMC.

I have no problem with your leaving, iceskater. Many have made your same decision for similar reasons, and I wish them well.

You realize about the minister with the wrist slap that she was in a liberal conference with a liberal bishop, and that it was inevitable that they’d try to find a way around the teaching of our church.

I’m wracking my brain, but I can’t recall anyplace where we spelled out the penalties, so that boils down to bishop’s discretion. We tried to implement an over-bishop this business meeting, but it was shot down. (I considered it dangerous if the wrong bishop got the job, but the right one and things would hit the fan.)