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To: Tublecane
I’m done with this. Anyone who can’t understand that citizenship doesn’t predate civilization is not worth talking to on the subject.

You probably can't conceive that slavery predated civilization either as there were no laws against it since "civilization" hadn't been established to make it morally wrong or criminal.

245 posted on 05/01/2012 5:31:06 PM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: philman_36

“You probably can’t conceive that slavery predated civilization either as there were no laws against it since ‘civilization’ hadn’t been established to make it morally wrong or criminal.”

I said I was done, but since this is a somewhat fresh issue, let me school you.

Slavery may have existed in pre-civilized times, though not in the way we mean it, not for extended periods, and not in a systematic manner. Hunter-gatherer societies are more likely to kill or leave stranded men they’ve conquered, as they have no use for slaves. Seriously, how do you keep someone in lower status if there is no division of labor—aside from those established along gender and age lines? You don’t. They run away.

Same with pastoral people. They possibly have some division of labor, though largely it is the same as with hunter-gatherers, i.e. along gender and age lines. They can’t prevent escape, either.

Slavery doesn’t come into its own before the herders adopt it. They can use slaves, and they can hunt slaves. They can settle slaves along with the rest of the farmers they’ve subdued, and draw tribute from them. No previous group can manage that.


254 posted on 05/01/2012 5:59:17 PM PDT by Tublecane
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