I use natural law when it suits the situation. It does not apply to everything.
I agree that natural law doesn't apply to everything. That's why man writes positive law. However, natural law most assuredly applies in this situation.
Glad I could brighten your day.
You didn't brighten my day. You showed how vapid you can be.
There were no cities before people cooperated enough for their to be surplus food to support city dwellers.
So what?! Were there no families or tribes either?
Perhaps, just perhaps, there was no civilization before then, and no citizens.
Perhaps not. What if your family disowned you or your tribe banished you?
But are all communities political?
Now or in the past?
You know what a “polis” is, right? That’s it: a city.
Only if you spoke Greek.
Tribes have no need of titles the way agricultural people with their cities do.
Yeah, right! Tell the chief and the shaman that their title meant nothing. And be sure and tell the wise women that your wife can have that child on her own.
You think you're wise and yet you don't allow basic common sense to enter your thinking. That makes you a fool.
“When? There was never a first family?”
Don’t get cute. This is below even you. One cannot be a citizen of his family. Nor is a family really a societ, according to how we use the word.
“Wouldn’t the father of such a family be the leader and it would be he who decided who was and wasn’t part of the family (determine citizenship)?”
Being a leader is not being government. Deciding who’s part of the family is not determining citizenship, because there is no familial citizenship.
“You didn’t brighten my day. You showed how vapid you can be”
Which made you laugh, thereby brightening your day.
By the way, what’s more vapid, to understand the basis of words like citizen and politics or to pretend that parents being the government of families and childrens being citizens of their families is more than metaphorical?
“So what?! Were there no families or tribes either?”
There are no citizens of families, nor of tribes.
“Now or in the past?”
Either.
“Only if you spoke Greek”
Also if you speak English, which adopted the word “politics” from the Greeks (vias intermediaries).
“Yeah, right! Tell the chief and the shaman that their title meant nothing.”
Those are not titles, in the manner you want them to be, you unspeakable ignoramus.
“be sure and tell the wise women that your wife can have that child on her own”
What are you getting at? That there were customs, and that everyone didn’t do what they felt like means there was government and citizenship? Who are you kidding? Is this some elaborate excercise in wasting my time, or what?
“You think you’re wise and yet you don’t allow basic common sense to enter your thinking.”
Basic common sense like what? That families are collectives of people and have some sort of order, therefore they have government and citizenship? Yeah, that’s a little too “common” for me. Everything is not everything else. We distinguish with good reason.
I’m done with this. Anyone who can’t understand that citizenship doesn’t predate civilization is not worth talking to on the subject.