Report: Zimmerman told cops Trayvon’s last words: ‘Okay, you got it’

The Daily Caller ^ | 19 Apr 2012 | Vince Coglianese

[GonzoGOP]

I thought that the 9mm is a complete waste as a self-defense weapon — at least that’s what I have been told by the .40 bots and .45 bots.

Here are some stats calculated by the Buckeye Firearms Association based on actual shooting incidents, not range plinking and advertising.

Caliber / Prob kill* / prob of 1 shot incapacity
.22 long / 34% / 31%
.380 ACP / 29% / 44%
9mm / 24% / 34%
.357 Mag / 34% / 44%
.45 ACP / 29% / 45%
.44 Mag / 26% / 59%
7.62 x 51 & .308 / 68% / 58%


So unless you are using a .44 Mag or an M-14 statistics say you are going to need a double tap. And even with those you are going to need a second round more than 40% of the time.

BTW the reason for the high lethality (tied for highest of all pistol rounds) for the .22 long was that it was easy to get off multiple aimed rounds. IOW you just Swiss cheese they guy.

* May include multiple shots.

[wrench]

Stovepipe jam after first shot

[TexasFreeper2009]

the story from the french revolution where people that just got there heads cut off were still blinking comes to mind :)

[TexasFreeper2009]

If Zimmerman had been a cop, he would of been given a week paid vacation and been back at work by now.

This whole case is a disgrace.

[Sioux-san]

I read that Zimmerman had a little Keltech (made in Florida). My brother gave me one of those - not happy to hear about the jamming. I gotta get back to the range.

[chevydude26]

Just a sad situation. Not sure if Martin wanted to kill Zimmerman but if he had let up and not pounded his head in cement Martin would still be alive today. Zimmerman should have shot him in the leg but I doubt he had time to think about where he was going to shoot since he probably felt Martin was going for his gun at the point he shot.

[GonzoGOP]

The best defensive handgun is one that you will carry and practice with and be able to consistently double-tap with into a 10" kill zone at seven to ten yards.

BINGO!


Since 9mm is cheaper than .44 Magnum you will probably practice more. In addition since statistically you will need multiple shots to ensure the target is incapicated (41% of the time even with .44 magnum) it is the gun you can get on target for the second round faster than matters. Finally the most important gun is the one you have with you. A .22 long in the holster is a lot more useful thatn a .44 magnum that you didn't bring with because it was too heavty to lug around all day.

[ezo4]

what kinda side arm did Zimmerman have?

[tumblindice]

Modern ammo has caused some police departments to consider going back to the nine mm. FMJ 9 mm. is still a military round.

[ezo4]

never mind - Keltec from previous post

[GonzoGOP]

Modern ammo has caused some police departments to consider going back to the nine mm. FMJ 9 mm. is still a military round.

The big concern is weight. Remember a cop has to drag his gun around all the time. He will likely only draw in in anger once or twice in his entire term of service. Since statistically you are going to have to shoot twice in any case you might as well have something that is comfortable to keep on your belt.

[wrench]

It was one of the smaller 9mm semi-auto pistols. Ruger or Keltec, do not remember. It is in the original police report that is on the net.

[Labyrinthos]

I carry the Speer Gold Dot 9mm +p in my Springfield XD Subcompact and Hornady .357 125 gr XTP in my Ruger 2.25”.

[USNBandit]

Could have been a number of factors related to the close proximity of the two men. Contact shots at close quarters can cause malfunctions as well as contact with the back of the slide against the shooter. I knew a guy doing a close quarter drill that had a malfunction because the slide hit his man boob. (Yes, we all laughed at him.)

Not necessarily a sign of a bad gun.

[tumblindice]

Local news says judge just set bail, 150K, and Zimmerman will be released with an ankle monitoring collar.

[Labyrinthos]

Here are some stats calculated by the Buckeye Firearms Association based on actual shooting incidents, not range plinking and advertising.

I've seen these stats before. The problem with using actual field results is that not every caliber was fired from the same distance using an identical weapon that placed the shot in the exact same location on perps that were dressed exactly alike. For example, how many of the 9mm incidents involved ball ammo as opposed to hollow point +p ammo? How many of the .357 incidents involved a an uncontrollable featherlight revolver as opposed to a more controllable heavyweight revolver like the S&W 686 or Ruger GP 100 or even a light-heavyweight like the Ruger SP 101?

[SVTCobra03]

Could have been a number of factors related to the close proximity of the two men. Contact shots at close quarters can cause malfunctions as well as contact with the back of the slide against the shooter. I knew a guy doing a close quarter drill that had a malfunction because the slide hit his man boob. (Yes, we all laughed at him.)

It makes tactical sense to carry a knife for just such a scenario. Becoming skilled in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is probably a good idea, also.

[BunnySlippers]

*

[Mr Rogers]

The problem with ‘real world data’ is that there are too many variables.

If you shoot someone in the meaty part of the thigh, the shot will do nothing to FORCE the BG to stop - although about half the time he will.

OTOH, if you shoot a guy in the heart with a 44 mag, there is enough blood left in the brain for him to shoot back for 10-20 seconds - which is enough for him to empty a 9mm magazine into you.

Bigger is better until bigger interferes with your shooting with some accuracy. I can shoot a 44 mag fine out of a 7.5” barrel Ruger, but it is kind of hard to conceal that size of gun.

I can shoot 357 mag out of a 686+ with good accuracy, but if I want to be completely comfortable, 38+P is better.

However, since my life is in danger (otherwise there is no justification for my shooting), and since NO HANDGUN can promise to stop someone in less than 10 seconds, even with multiple rounds...I prefer to think of: Shoot once. Move. Shoot once. Move.

And if you are on your back and cannot move & your life is in danger: Empty the gun.

Apart from a difficult brain shot, no handgun offers a 1 or 2 or 10 shot promise to incapacitate. A handgun is always an offensive weapon being used for defensive purposes because it is the last resort. IMHO.

[Toespi]

Simply, if Zimmerman wanted to just shoot him for fun with malice or as a hate crime, why on earth would he have called 911 first to report a suspicious person?