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To: Sherman Logan

“An unfortunate meme has been floating around that the men of 1848 were all pre-commies. They were not.”

Maybe not pre-commies, but there was a strong leftist streak that persists to this day in the communities they established. The leftism in Wisconsin and environs traces back to the 48ers.

“However, it is fair to point out that a great many, possibly a majority, of the “radical” 48ers that came to America were no more radical than the American revolutionaries of 1776”

Oh, I think there is a very big difference between the two camps. Russell Kirk among others points out that the American Revolution began as conservative enterprise- it was an attempt by the colonials to protect their rights as Englishmen. They didn’t start out seeking to overturn anything, they wanted to preserve their rights, which were being trod upon by Parliament and the King. Only after their repeated requests were rebuffed did they decide upon independence.

The 48ers in contrast were cultural as well as political revolutionaries. Theirs wasn’t a fight for independence, it was a fight to revolutionize society. When they came to the US they came with their ideology intact, and wanted to make the US conform to it.


272 posted on 05/03/2012 9:11:53 PM PDT by Pelham (Marco Rubio, la raza trojan horse.)
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To: Pelham
The 48ers in contrast were cultural as well as political revolutionaries. Theirs wasn’t a fight for independence, it was a fight to revolutionize society.

Quite true. However, the societies they were rebelling against were not the liberal (in the original sense) Whig society of significant freedom the American colonists were attempting to conserve. The 48ers fought against the true Right Wing, the King and Church absolutism that the Whigs in England had triumphed against in the Glorious Revolution.

The men of 48 weren't fighting to keep their rights, because they had no rights. The 48er revolutionists were largely, though not exclusively, fighting to acquire the rights the American revolutionists were fighting to retain. But the American Revolution could be conservative only because a previous revolution, that of 1688, had acquired those rights. IOW, the conservative European societies the men of 48 rebelled against deserved to be overthrown.

Some conservatives seem to be under the mistaken impression that conservatism is always a good thing. This is nonsense on stilts. It depends utterly and entirely on what is being conserved. The conservation of evil and oppression is never a good thing.

Islamists really are fighting to conserve what they see as true Islam. Does that make their cause just? Of course not.

American conservatism is, from a long-term historical perspective, the most radical ideology in history. All other ideologies dispute over which group will be given the power to domineer over others. Only the true American ideology American conservatism attempts to conserve tries to keep any group from domineering, allowing the people to lead their own lives as they see fit.

This has never been fully or perfectly implemented, of course, and is in the process of slipping away, but it is what the American project stands for.

275 posted on 05/04/2012 5:43:59 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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