Gibson Guitar case drags on with no sign of criminal charges

Fox News ^ | April 12 2012 | Fox News

[NoLibZone]

t was seven months ago that federal agents with guns drawn raided the Gibson guitar factories in Nashville and Memphis. A half million dollars worth of Indian rosewood and ebony was seized under the premise that it had been imported illegally. The feds also took a number of guitars and computer hard drives. The factory was shut down for the day and employees told to go home.

Yet after all this time, the Department of Justice has shown no sign that it will file criminal charges against Gibson. What’s more – it has been almost 3 years since federal agents first raided Gibson (November 2009), seizing a quantity of wood from Madagascar. No decision on criminal charges in that case either.

Meantime, the DOJ has blocked a civil court case in which Gibson was appealing to get its wood back while the criminal investigation proceeds. Or doesn’t.

[jdsteel]

The country is Madagascar,and they have no problem with the drilling being done in the US. it is only OUR government that has a problem with it.

[kingu]

Let's call it what it is: The United States code has grown so enormous that not even the United States government can figure out what is and what is not legal anymore. That's the problem. Who has jurisdiction over this case, is it a fine or a criminal prosecution, can we use the evidence we seized for one crime to charge for another, etc, etc, etc. The questions are endless and it is generating decades of work for overpaid drones in the federal government.

Eventually, someone will write a piece of paper with a fine on it, slip it to Gibson, they'll write back another amount, and a press release will be made about a settlement in the case.

Only way this stops is if we start retiring rules and regulations, and put in a permanent sunset on ALL laws, requiring them to be re-approved after a certain number of years.

[Scoutmaster]

"Meantime, the DOJ has blocked a civil court case in which Gibson was appealing to get its wood back while the criminal investigation proceeds."

It would be nice if Fox got its facts straight.

(1) "Civil court case." That's singular, Fox. There's not a 'case.' There are two cases, both in U.S. District Court in the Middle District of Tennessee. They're cases number 3-10-cv-00747 and 3-11-CV-00913.

'The DOJ has blocked." Well, no. Technically, U.S. District Court Judge William J. Haynes ordered a stay. It's a little different when a U.S. Federal Judge does it than when the Holder DOJ does it.

(3) 'GIbson was appealing." No, not if you want to be precise. Gibson has filed a "Verified Claim Contesting Forfeiture." In both cases. If you want to dumb it down - but if you want to dumb it down, then I guess the 'police told Zimmerman not to follow Martin.' It's easier to understand that way.

The reporting on this case IS the rough equivalent of the Zimmerman case. We know all about Gibson and we've formed an opinion about the Obama DOJ - but nobody's ever hear about Roger Thunam, Theodor Nagel Gmbh, Gene Nix, Phil Guillery, Hunter Trading Corporation, Andrew Keck, Luthier Mercantile, Red Arrow, or Antalaha Brana of BFV-Société Générale. Because it's a lot easier to say "Obama's out to get Gibson" than to follow the story of a company that thought it wasn't going to get caught.

[muawiyah]

Still, it’s imported goods ~ you cross that custom’s line and it’s not Kansas anymore ~ nor is it Tennessee either!

[Scoutmaster]

Gibson doesn't bolt their necks on, they glue them.

If you're talking acoustics, then the only 'major' company in higher-end guitars that bolts on necks as a matter of course would be Taylor.

[Scoutmaster]

From the article: "{I]t was seven months ago that federal agents with guns drawn raided the Gibson guitar factories in Nashville and Memphis. A half million dollars worth of Indian rosewood and ebony was seized under the premise that it had been imported illegally. "

Now that's interesting, too. Makes it sound as if the government is holding wood seized from Gibson's factories in Nashville and Memphis, doesn't it?

Not the case. From the Verified Complaint in Rem filed on September 27, 2011, in the civil forfeiture case.

The only wood being held was seized from LMI, not Gibson, and from Dallas, not Nashville or Memphis. LMI has entered a claim because Gibson's never paid for the wood that was seized and its name didn't appear on any of the customs or ownership paperwork for the wood.

There are 26 filings, frequently a multi-document 'filing' with exhibits that are often themselves multi-page documents (not that anybody appears willing or desirous of reading what Gibson or the government say in those documents). Gibson's not trying to claim ownership of any wood from any raid of any Gibson factory.

If I dig back through them, there's a value placed on that wood - and it's not remotely a half million dollars (but a half million sounds great when you're writing a story).

So, no, there's no rosewood involved, and no, the wood didn't come from Gibson's factories in Nashville or Memphis, and no, it's not worth a half million, and no, Gibson may not have even been the owner (that's an issue that has to be decided by the court) - but it certainly sounds nice when Fox writes it that way, doesn't it?

[Repeat Offender]

Let's call it what it is: The United States code has grown so enormous that not even the United States government can figure out what is and what is not legal anymore. That's the problem. Who has jurisdiction over this case, is it a fine or a criminal prosecution, can we use the evidence we seized for one crime to charge for another, etc, etc, etc. The questions are endless and it is generating decades of work for overpaid drones in the federal government.

---

"Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.” ― Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

[BluesDuke]

Kimberly A. Strassel, "Stringing Up Gibson Guitar: Environmentalists and Trade Protectionists Set a Trap for American Businesses, 25 November 2011.

[RedMonqey]

You don't want to get yourself mixed up in any type of bureaucracy. In the Gov, everything works exactly opposite of the way it does in private industry.

Back a few years ago the city and county wanted to open up farmland for development(land owned by bigshots) and urged TDoT(Tennessee Department of Transportation) to build an bypass with intersection that would have taken a large portion of our farm and split it into sections..

As small farmers we couldn't afford money to be tied up in litigation for years so we contacted the state Water and Emviromental agencies and had them review the TDoT land studies. TDoT OK'ed the road ways, however the Environment and Water agency didn't and contested it because it found federally protected "wetlands" ("crawdaddy" land we used to think "useless" because it was usually too wet to farm) an endangered plant(Brices potato bean plant) as well as an "threaten" frog

A war of paperwork between the agencies ensued which delayed the construction for years.

Finally TDoT gave in and changed the roadway(although we did lose a few acres) We later did the same thing when TVA wanted to put it's High powered lines along the same route but we got Fort Campbell to fight against TVA(Helicopter and high powered electrical lines don't go well together hee hee.)

We keep our land mostly intact and didn't have to spend anything more but the cost of postage stamps and envelops.