EMS tapes show George Zimmerman did not sustain fatal injuries in encounter with Trayvon Martin

New York Daily News ^ | Saturday, March 31, 2012 | Matthew Lysiak and Rich Schapiro

[PhatHead]

So now Martin was “lost?” Now Zimmerman has been “intensely patrolling” the neighborhood since years before it was even built?

You have put together quite an imaginative scenario, but again, I have trouble squaring it with the known facts.

I’m sure you can easily construct another fanciful scenario (added difficulty: it must all take place in a timespan of about two minutes,) but for what it’s worth, you are mistaken about the location of Zimmerman’s house.

[dblStop]

I guess the only way to justify self-defense is to sustain fatal injuries. LOL.

Yes, if you receive fatal injuries, self defence is justified, lol.

[taxcontrol]

What it PROVES is that Zimmerman HAD INJURIES. Injuries serious enough to require EMT attention. The way he gets those injuries is that he is attacked. Dead teens do not / can not cause the type of injuries that require EMT attention.

[kabar]

You have a reading comprehension problem.

[TXnMA]

"An ESL sort of blunder..."

Not really. More like a "EFL sort of blunder..."

Ebonics
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[BilLies]

You said at 68;
“There are situations where you are on the ground getting the tar whaled out of you yet you are still the agressor.”

I said:
“Walk me trough the scenario.....” in answer to the above. Sorry If I did not make myself absolutely clear. Please limit your answer to your statement at 68 namely what “are situations where you are on the ground getting the tar whaled out of you yet you are still the agressor.”

Thanks.

[Reese Hamm]

George somehow gets from his truck ~ parked in front of his house ~ to the same sidewalk where Trayvon is found dead.

Based on a few things in George's call to dispatch, I don't think he was near his home. For one thing, he began to give out his address as 1950. The only 1900 block/building group I see on the map of the complex is in the southwest corner of the complex. Also, Zimmerman told the dispatcher that he didn't know the address where his truck was parked - unlikely if he was parked in front of his own home.

As for Martin not simply running all the way home, it is possible that he, like Zimmerman, didn't want this stranger to know where he lived. Though an athlete, I doubt he could have covered the entire distance before Zimmerman was able to cover the distance from his truck to the north end of the walkway which could have given him a view of which house Martin ran to. I think it likely that Martin did run and then ducked between one of the building hoping George would lose sight of him, which he apparently did.

We have George's statement given after the fact that indicates that he headed back to his truck after losing sight of Martin when Martin approached him but no independent collaboration. Martin's girlfriend claims that Martin was the first to address Zimmerman, asking him "Why you following me?" but unless Martin said something about Zimmerman spotting him or him telling her that he was going to surprise Zimmerman, she would have no idea who caught sight of whom first. If George was still looking around for Martin, it is possible that he spotted him and that Martin was just the first to speak.

There's nothing to back up George's statement about Martin approaching him but there's nothing to contradict it either. And the police can't arrest someone solely because they MIGHT be lying. It will be interesting to eventually see all the evidence -- the EMT report, the autopsy, forensics on both their clothing, etc.

[moehoward]

You've got a few too many assumptions in there and not enough known facts. Assume GZ had his Kel-Tec on him. The handful of guys I know with CC, do religiously. For GZ to head off TM, he'd have to know where he lived. That combined with your stop off at the house to pick up the weapon, amounts to premeditated murder. And there is zero indication of that at this point.

That said, the map below doesn't quite square with GZ returning directly to his vehicle to wait for police. "F" is the spot where TM was shot.

[PhatHead]

I agree.

I’m not sure of the basis for point “E” on this map - it seems like speculation, although it fits the known facts and timeline.

[PhatHead]

As for Martin not simply running all the way home, it is possible that he, like Zimmerman, didn't want this stranger to know where he lived. Though an athlete, I doubt he could have covered the entire distance before Zimmerman was able to cover the distance from his truck to the north end of the walkway which could have given him a view of which house Martin ran to. I think it likely that Martin did run and then ducked between one of the building hoping George would lose sight of him, which he apparently did.

I guess so, but the girlfriend did not report that Trayvon had stopped to hide, and you'd think she would have. In any case, your guess is as good as any - and at least it fits the timeline. And as you say, we have not yet seen any actual evidence that Zimmerman's account (which also fits the timeline) is false.

[fortheDeclaration]

These guys can’t be that dumb!

[Wuli]

The validity of a threat you thwarted is not defined by the extent of injuries you recieved in the process, but the extent of injury your attacker attempted against you.

The fact that you were ultimately more succesful than your attacker does not make your claim any less credible.

[101stAirborneVet]

Right on. If someone keeps firing a gun at me and missing, I may not sustain any injuries, but that doesn't mean I didn't legitimately and reasonably fear for my life.

[21twelve]

What I got out of the headline, and have seen in other cases, was that because the injuries aren’t so bad, Martin should not have been killed. You know, maybe shot in the arm to stop him from punching.

Sort of like a mugging where the perp gets killed, and his mom says “He didn’t even have a weapon, he was just down on his luck and needed some money”.

Even some Freeper’s comments over the various threads have that mentality - that you can only shoot if you are in fear for your life. Of course the law varies from state to state.

[101stAirborneVet]

You know, maybe shot in the arm to stop him from punching.

Except that handgun use doesn't work that way when one is under duress. If Zimmerman was a Navy SeAL, maybe such an argument could be made. I challenge any normal person to place a well-aimed shot into someone's arm when they're on their back being struck about the head and face.

Such an assertion by the writers of what you have read is absurd.

[Reese Hamm]

I guess so, but the girlfriend did not report that Trayvon had stopped to hide, and you'd think she would have. In any case, your guess is as good as any - and at least it fits the timeline. And as you say, we have not yet seen any actual evidence that Zimmerman's account (which also fits the timeline) is false.

Warning: More guesswork incoming.
I don't remember the details but didn't the girlfriend say that she told him to run and he said no, that he was just going to "walk really fast"? That would fit with a teen not wanting his girl to think he was being a coward while still indicating that he was uneasy. I think it would be even less likely for him to admit, "I'm hiding now." That just isn't the kind of image a teenage guy (or many grown men for that matter) wants his girl to have of him.

[PhatHead]

First of all, the headline is hilarious. But let's take a look at what the article says, also:

Richard Kurtz said his examination of the slain Florida teen’s corpse revealed no cuts, scratches or bruises, only a gunshot wound to the chest.

One might construe this as supportive of Zimmerman's account, as well - an interpretation that seems to have eluded the article's author. After all, if Zimmerman started the fight, you'd think he would have landed at least one punch. Nobody denies any more that blows were landed in the other direction.

[21twelve]

“..was a Navy SeAL, maybe such an argument could be made.”

Agreed - although I imagine a Navy Seal would not have ended up on the ground in the first place!

I’m sure the idea of “winging” a guy comes from the movies. I just saw a pretty good old Western where Henry Fonda wings Jimmy Stewart in the leg to slow him down to keep him from following as his gang leaves town.

A few moments later when Stewart goes and gets a gun from a local shop keeper and comes up firing, Fonda (aging gunfighter) quips “I used to know which men needed shooting and which needed killing.”

[moehoward]

Sorry, I should have linked. Another freeper linked to this site earlier.

http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/evidence-that-trayvon-martin-doubled-back

I haven’t given the info there any more than a once over but it looks pretty solid.

[newzjunkey]

Silly me! I sort of assumed that when Zimmerman walked away. I should have waited for the press to confirm it.

Exactly.