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To: Gunslingr3
You start with the premise that this war, to install a government at odds with the local culture, could be won.

And yet we did it in Japan.

The idea that we couldn't win in Afghanistan or Iraq is incorrect. We certainly could. We could impose our will, impose a humane constitution, impose democracy of some kind, etc. All that is required is the willingness to be as viscous and brutal as our opponents (or more so) and otherwise rule with an iron fist. The Japanese people (and Germans) knew we'd take out whole cities if necessary to win. We didn't play games trying to separate the people from the government, we went to war under the assumption that the Japanese (and German) people were responsible for their own government. We went to war with a people, and we demonstrated the will to kill even hundreds of thousands of civilians without sitting around fretting about who was a combatant and who wasn't.

In Afghanistan (and Iraq), the people know we are not really, completely serious about victory. Under those circumstances it will be damn near impossible for much good to come of things in the long term.

While I do not like Ron Paul at all (I mostly consider him a loon), he does make a good point about getting formal declarations of war before we march off to battle. I don't agree with him that the congressional authorizations aren't sufficient, they are. But I do agree with the serious statement that a real declaration of war would provide. We should be fighting these wars to win at whatever the cost, or not at all.

38 posted on 03/11/2012 9:47:42 AM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: Longbow1969
'But I do agree with the serious statement that a real declaration of war would provide. '

But, more importantly. The Dec. of War, would allow the President to use the full force of Gov't to win such war. ie creating oil supplies domestically, getting rid of environmental regulations, building refineries, securing the borders.

One cannot win a war, using the current methods of engagement.

42 posted on 03/11/2012 9:56:51 AM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Longbow1969

I disagree. Japan had several decades of engendering and embracing western legal and political systems. They sent thousands of students abroad under the ‘if you can’t beat’em, join’em premise.
They embraced colonialism to try and widen their sphere of influence and draw a wider border to keep western imperial powers at bay. That is what led to repeated clashes with the west.
MacArthur didn’t introduce democracy to Japan. The experience of firebombing and the starvation of Japan did discredit the militarist faction that led them such a point.
The situation in Afghanistan is simply not analogous to to the German and Japanese governments that led them into wars with foreign powers. The vast majority of people were fighting in Afghanistan are fighting us simply because we’re there, and for no other reason.


71 posted on 03/11/2012 10:40:36 AM PDT by Gunslingr3
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