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To: HMS Surprise

So your argument is, except for the Constitution, except for the Articles of Confederation, and except for the Declaration of Independence, the Rebels were correct.


19 posted on 02/18/2012 12:23:48 PM PST by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: donmeaker

The argument is that Southerners looked to the heros of the American Revolution and their documents just as Lincoln did, but they each came away with different views. Southerners were animated to repeat, Lincoln was determined to maintain the status quo which was created. I am NOT a Lincoln-hater, I am a Washington lover, and consider him, and others in the founding, to be better angels... to steal a phrase.


23 posted on 02/18/2012 12:34:32 PM PST by HMS Surprise (Chris Christie can still go to hell.)
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To: donmeaker

The Constitutional ratification statements of several states would indicate they believed they had the right to withdraw from the Union. Virginia’s ratification statement read in part:
WE the Delegates of the people of Virginia, duly elected in pursuance of a recommendation from the General Assembly, and now met in Convention, having fully and freely investigated and discussed the proceedings of the Federal Convention, and being prepared as well as the most mature deliberation hath enabled us, to decide thereon, DO in the name and in behalf of the people of Virginia, declare and make known that the powers granted under the Constitution, being derived from the people of the United States may be resumed by them whensoever the same shall be perverted to their injury or oppression, and that every power not granted thereby remains with them and at their will: that therefore no right of any denomination, can be cancelled, abridged, restrained or modified, by the Congress, by the Senate or House of Representatives acting in any capacity, by the President or any department or officer of the United States, except in those instances in which power is given by the Constitution for those purposes: and that among other essential rights, the liberty of conscience and of the press cannot be cancelled, abridged, restrained or modified by any authority of the United States.

Presently, there is a independence movement in Vermont. To ensure the citizens of Vermont understand the consequences of secession, I propose a new amendment to the Constitution that provides for the following:
1. No state shall seceded from the Union and should a state attempt succession the remaining states within the Union may use the military force necessary for subjugation.
2. States not seceding may be compelled to furnish military force for said subjugation.
3. Upon subjugation, states attempting secession are to be administered by martial law until federal supremacy is assured.
4. During the subjugation process, the Bill of Rights and the writ of habeas corpus may be suspended at the sole discretion of the President.
5. During secession hostilities, the military forces of the United States are permitted to pillage, burn and destroy the property of civilians in the rebellious state(s) at the discretion of military commanders.
6. Food and medicine may be considered contraband in the rebellious states.
6. During secession hostilities, civilians in the rebellious states may be imprisoned, exiled, and executed without trial.

The founding fathers certainly would have approved of an amendment including these provisions since apparently the concepts were in the Constitution but not explicitly stated.


40 posted on 02/18/2012 1:17:04 PM PST by wfu_deacons
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