Posted on 02/15/2012 1:10:19 PM PST by FewsOrange
Pediatricians fed up with parents who refuse to vaccinate their children out of concern it can cause autism or other problems increasingly are "firing" such families from their practices, raising questions about a doctor's responsibility to these patients.
Medical associations don't recommend such patient bans, but the practice appears to be growing, according to vaccine researchers.
In a study of Connecticut pediatricians published last year, some 30% of 133 doctors said they had asked a family to leave their practice for vaccine refusal, and a recent survey of 909 Midwestern pediatricians found that 21% reported discharging families for the same reason.
By comparison, in 2001 and 2006 about 6% of physicians said they "routinely" stopped working with families ...
Most pediatricians consider preventing disease through vaccines a primary goal of their job. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and AAP issue an annual recommended vaccination schedule, but some parents ask if their child's immunizations can be pushed back or skipped altogether, pediatricians say. While rates for several key inoculations in young children rose between 2009 and 2010, according to the CDC, lower immunization rates have been blamed as a factor in U.S. outbreaks of whooping cough and measles in recent years.
Parents often voice concerns about autism or that their child's immune system may be overwhelmed by too many vaccines at once. Worries about a link between vaccines and autism arose because some parents noticed their children regressed, or lost some skills, around the time of their vaccinations at two years of age. Another concern centered on the former use of mercury as a vaccine preservative.
Numerous studies since have dispelled these concerns among scientists. Rather, scientists say, it is more likely that autism symptoms begin showing up around the same age children are vaccinated.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
I wasn’t aware that vaccines got rid of the need to visit the doctor regularly. You’d think most doctors would be against them.
“That’s not how science works. You can’t separate the good effects from the bad effects of vaccines. “
Oh yes it is. The effectiveness of vaccinations in protecting against communicable disease is not even a subject of debate. The means and methods are subject to change as improvements in those means and methods are made - and the supporting data becomes available.
It’s the BS from the anti-vaccine crazies that is the only subject of debate. Yes, there are effects for everything you do, medically, but ultimately, with the state of vaccine research today, you are left with the statistics of illness and vaccination as your guide, until we get better data. The statistics say that you are putting your kids at risk of severe illness if you ignore the vaccination guidelines.
As vaccine research advances, guidelines change - this is a strength of science, not a weakness as some of the crazies will have you believe.
Anyway THAT is how science works with regards to vaccines.
I did not argue that vaccines do provide protection from vaccines, though it isn't a perfect protection.
What I did say was that vaccination carries some risk, which you want to ignore. Science doesn't ignore the risks, it's politicians and marketers who hide the risk and only talk about the benefits.
“What I did say was that vaccination carries some risk, which you want to ignore”
No, I did not ignore it. What you want to ignore is there is no way to separate vaccination risk from non-vaccination risk. The non-vaccine folks somehow justify their actions which create a greater risk for them and their kids - and create a societal risk for other who either do not or cannot get vaccinated.
But they have the right to take the risk - but let’s not pretend they aren’t taking a risk above the risk of the proven complications from a vaccine.
I assume that this was a poor attempt at humor...
Since the vast majority of the population gets vaccinated then I would have to assume that the vast majority of people who died this year where vaccinated...
I assume that this was a poor attempt at humor...
Children dying because their idiot parents didn't get them vaccinated is not humorous.
Healthy people should visit the doctor regularly for checkups, of course. And in between if anything comes up or you don’t feel well. Catching things early is often critical.
Vaccinations, or not, shouldn’t change that.
How to even respond to such a statement...it appears we are starting with the name calling even before having a serious discussion. Is there a study out there that shows the percentage of children that are vaccinated against a disease that then die from that disease versus those that are not vaccinated for that same disease that die from it? (an apples to apples comparison) What percentage of the population is vaccinated versus not vaccinated? How many cases of the diseases that we have vaccines for are reported in this country each year...and how many actually die from them? How many cases of those diseases are from people already vaccinated for that disease versus not vaccinated?
I have made a decision with in my own family based upon the information that I have seen so far...and it sure appears to be working (in some circles this would be called freedom). If you think that you have better information then please share it...calling me an “idiot parent” will not change my mind after the research I have put into this area.
Something that we agree upon...
My point was that if a person takes the full list of vaccinations, shouldn't they at some point need to visit the doctor less? I believe the reason most people take vaccinations is so that they will not get the disease...and so they should be healthier. So the “if anything comes up or you don’t feel well” should be fewer...I would think. But from my experience the people that I know that have not been vaccinated tend to visit the doctor office less then those that have been vaccinated (my friends do talk about this) for the times when they don't feel well...the ones that have not been vaccinated seem to be healthier over all...
Must be a doctor, like Ron Paul and Howard Dean. The arrogance imparted by med school is unparalleled.
We could look at the number who die from smallpox.
I have made a decision with in my own family based upon the information that I have seen so far...and it sure appears to be working
Hopefully it continues working. I'd rather not call you an idiot.
I think you might want to rethink your example...from the CDC website...”The last case of smallpox in the United States was in 1949. The last naturally occurring case in the world was in Somalia in 1977.” As a result small pox is not even on the list of vaccines now advised. Since my oldest child was born in the 1990’s why would I want my children vaccinated against small pox? Did vaccination help in removing small pox as a threat...YES...but the threat is now removed so there is no need to vaccinate for it. The question then turns to what is currently being vaccinated for that offers such a major threat that you are willing to call parents “idiots”...
“I'd rather not call you an idiot”
I really don't care what you call me...it speaks more about you then it does me. I have looked at the current evidence and made a decision which is my right as a free American...until people that disagree decide to make America less free and mandate vaccines...
Nope, not at all.
My points are that everybody has the right to balance those risks off, and also that the medical profession tends to view the vaccination risk as minimal, and assume the non-vaccination risk is always greater.
“the medical profession tends to view the vaccination risk as minimal, and assume the non-vaccination risk is always greater. “
Why do you think they do that? I’ll tell you. They have data that points to that conclusion. Actual data.
What do you have?
No one gets smallpox anymore?
I guess the vaccine worked. Good thing idiots didn't prevent its eradication due to ignorance.
Did vaccination help in removing small pox as a threat...YES...but the threat is now removed so there is no need to vaccinate for it.
No kidding.
The question then turns to what is currently being vaccinated for that offers such a major threat that you are willing to call parents “idiots”...
There's a list of nasty diseases they have vaccines to prevent. You need a list?
I really don't care what you call me...it speaks more about you then it does me.
If one of your kids dies from a disease you could have prevented, idiot is one of the kinder things I could call you.
I have looked at the current evidence and made a decision
Is any of your evidence based on the autism liar from England?
and made a decision which is my right as a free American...
You're right. They haven't outlawed stupidity.
I asked my pediatrician to provide just ONE double blind independent study of the safety and efficacy of any vaccine, and I have yet to receive one in over 5 years.
Pediatricians spout the party line about vaccines, just as they spout the party line about guns (read the American Academy of Pediatrics’ (AAP) position on gun control).
Anyone who is on the fence about vaccinations should simply go to Amazon, pick up some pro/con books on vaccines, educate oneself, then make an informed decision. If one chooses to weigh one’s pediatrician’s (non-expert) opinion on the matter, remember that many of these AAP idiots want every child on cholesterol medicine, and they want the Second Amendment restricted for reasons of “public health”. In that regard, at least the pediatric profession is consistent: neither their position on guns, nor their position on vaccines, is based on anything more than junk science.
If one’s pediatrician does not respect one’s final decision of conscience as a parent, the solution is to terminate that relationship, and then find a new family doctor.
Educate before you vaccinate!
“There's a list of nasty diseases they have vaccines to prevent. You need a list?”
Yes...what is currently being vaccinated for that is so deadly and how many people in the United States die from those diseases each year? Of those that do die, how many were vaccinated for the disease versus not vaccinated? Without this information a person cannot make a logical decision about the current benefits of each vaccine.
“Is any of your evidence based on the autism liar from England?”
I do not even know who you are talking about. Most of the information I have comes from the CDC and various medical guides and journals that I own (Harvard, Mayo, etc.)
“They haven't outlawed stupidity.”
More name calling...good luck in convincing somebody too your way of thinking with that.
I guess I am done with this discussion...or lack of.
You have information? LOL!
...According to the CDC no body gets smallpox anymore.
Yes. Because anti-vaccine idiocy didn't leave huge chunks of the population susceptible to a deadly disease.
Yes...what is currently being vaccinated for that is so deadly
Diphtheria, Pertussis, Tetanus, Influenza, Polio, Mumps, Rubella and Meningitis.
Of those that do die, how many were vaccinated for the disease versus not vaccinated? Without this information a person cannot make a logical decision about the current benefits of each vaccine.
You don't already have this info?
Diphtheria, Pertussis, Tetanus, Influenza, Polio, Mumps, Rubella and Meningitis.”
From the CDC website...
Diphtheria...In the last ten years there has only been 5 cases in the U.S. per year.
Pertussis...from 2004 to 2009 there were 121 total deaths of which 110 of them were from infants under 3 months of age...the first dose of the vaccine is offered at 2 months of age.
Tetanus...before the vaccine there were fewer then 500 cases each year and there are fewer cases now.
Polio...”there are no cases of polio in the U.S.”...no polio cases have originated in the U.S. in 20 years.
Mumps...there were two outbreaks in 2006 and 2009 when a couple thousand people became sick...I could not find any fatalities mentioned.
Rubella...”Rubella is no longer circulating naturally in the U.S.”
Meningitis...from 1994 to 1998 there were fewer then 10 fatal cases per year.
Influenza...the estimates are that 3000 people die each year from complications caused by the flu.
Did vaccines help to bring us to this point...I would say yes (as a stated earlier). But it appears that we are now vaccinating against a very small threat...a person is much more likely to die from a car accident then any and all of these deceases combined. Which brings us back to the original post about the concern of catching one of these deceases while in the doctor office...not very likely.
I am not "anti-vaccine", my family does have some of the vaccines. We have looked at the information available and made decisions based upon risk factors and age/health of each child to determine our course of action...all with our doctor's blessing.
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