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To: patlin
The fact is, the founders simply never ventured into the area of birth as it was common law of all nations(international law) set forth by God, that children follow the nationality of the father.

And this is where we'll never agree. Firstly, because many phrases in the Constitution were taken from Common Law, and "natural born" was one of them.

And second, because many people have different ideas of what laws are set forth by God, and what God wants of us. My ancestors were slaughtered because some people thought "God wanted it." Hugenots were slaughtered by the Catholic population, some egged on by priests who thought "God wanted it." Protestants persecuted and killed Catholics in Ireland in the 1600's, some because "God wanted it."

Forgive me if I don't trust your interpretation of what God wants, or what are God's laws. [My religion dictates that the mother's religion controls, not the father's.] In this particular case, I'll trust rather to the Founders, the Constitution, and over a century of interpretation by the courts.

490 posted on 02/08/2012 5:16:35 PM PST by sometime lurker
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To: sometime lurker
And this is where we'll never agree. Firstly, because many phrases in the Constitution were taken from Common Law, and “natural born” was one of them.

Until you understand what common law is in order to define what common law actually is, your responses are nothing but ignorance. You can capitalize “C”ommon “L”aw all you want, but it will not help your pleading. Every nation has common law that is common to that nation. Every locality in a nation has common law that is common only to that locality within the nation. In each instance there is type of jurisdiction.

A citizen of one state is not under the citizenship jurisdiction of another state in the sense that one can not legally cross a border and vote in an election in a state in which they are not a citizen of just because they are a US citizen. However, all who are in the state, whether permanent or temporary, are subject to jurisdiction of the laws of peace & discord. Citizenship is a politically narrow jurisdiction. And that is where you fail in your pleading.

500 posted on 02/08/2012 6:09:53 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: sometime lurker
Forgive me if I don't trust your interpretation of what God wants, or what are God's laws. [My religion dictates that the mother's religion controls, not the father's.] In this particular case, I'll trust rather to the Founders, the Constitution, and over a century of interpretation by the courts.

I suspected that was why you are so clever and obstinate at the same time. :)

Exodus 33:5
For the LORD had said unto Moses, Say unto the children of Israel, Ye are a stiffnecked people: I will come up into the midst of thee in a moment, and consume thee: therefore now put off thy ornaments from thee, that I may know what to do unto thee.

Isaiah 48:4
Because I knew that thou art obstinate, and thy neck is an iron sinew, and thy brow brass;

Odds are that you live in an Coastal Urban Environment, which leans heavily Democrat. Your Demographic votes Democrat 85% of the time. Odd that you find the conservative viewpoint interesting. :)

Never fear, I am a friend, though you might not like me very much.

520 posted on 02/09/2012 9:19:24 AM PST by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: sometime lurker
Forgive me if I don't trust your interpretation of what God wants, or what are God's laws

(1776)When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them

(1787)We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America

Deu 17:14 “When you come to the land which YHVH your Elohim is giving you, and shall possess it and shall dwell in it, and you shall say, ‘Let me set a sovereign over me like all the gentiles("goy" or "ger") that are around me,’ 15 you shall certainly set a sovereign over you whom YHVH your Elohim shall choose. Set a sovereign over you from among your brothers ("ben"), you are not allowed to set a foreigner("goy" or "ger") over you, who is not your brother("ben")

Now considering that no less than a 3rd of the signers of either of the above mentioned founding documents were preachers, one can safely assume they knew who their "posterity" was & who YHVH meant by "brother". A brother is a "ben", one of blood not a "ger", a naturalized foreigner. A "ben" is not a "goy", a resident ro temp foreigner/sojourner.

525 posted on 02/09/2012 9:52:08 AM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: sometime lurker; DiogenesLamp
Forgive me if I don't trust your interpretation of what God wants, or what are God's laws ... I'll trust rather to the Founders

(March 4, 1789) “The Conventions of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added ...
Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives...
Articles in addition to, and Amendment of the Constitution of the United States ...

signed by FREDERICK AUGUSTUS MUHLENBERG, Speaker of the House (Lutheran Preacher whose father founded the Lutheran church in America)

I think it is safe to assume we know what “GOD” the founders were referring to, the only “GOD” of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob. You should venture over to the "Library of Liberty” online and read a few of their sermons. They are quite revealing as to the mindset of the founding fathers & framers of the Declaration, Constitution & Bill of Rights. These men knew the difference between NBC & NBS and they fought a bloody war to get rid of NBS.

526 posted on 02/09/2012 10:18:16 AM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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