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To: xzins

I want to agree with your point and you do have me leaning that way but doesn’t your point, taking it’s natural course further victimize a rape victim?

I mean if she chooses to have the baby, that is a decision to be celebrated and supported, but there is a strong part of me that is stuck still on “who am I to force a rape victim to do anything?”

I might feel better that those babies are being given a chance at life but (unlike several others on this thread given their attitudes) I’d feel pretty damned guilty for further traumatizing a rape victim.

I think that I and others that feel as I do can get to where you are on the subject but it’s going to take a lot of soul searching and btw, your attitude towards me on this thread is a lot more useful in making the case than the attitude of many others.


268 posted on 02/07/2012 10:50:46 AM PST by Grunthor (Mitt Romney and anyone supporting him can go fornicate themselves with a cactus)
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To: Grunthor

New tagline ...


269 posted on 02/07/2012 11:04:31 AM PST by EternalVigilance (It is very difficult, if not impossible, to reach those who deny what is self-evident.)
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To: Grunthor

Let’s try another tack.

At exactly what point in time or development, in your opinion, does this “thing” you call an “egg” cease being an “egg” and become the sort of human PERSON that the Constitution explicitly and imperatively protects?

Can you explain to us how any answer you give beyond creation, or, if you will, biological inception, is anything but arbitrary?


272 posted on 02/07/2012 11:11:40 AM PST by EternalVigilance (It is very difficult, if not impossible, to reach those who deny what is self-evident.)
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To: Grunthor
I’d feel pretty damned guilty for further traumatizing a rape victim.

Nothing could cause more "trauma" than abetting them in the killing of their own offspring.

How about the trauma to the innocent person who is being dismembered and destroyed? No guilt about that?

277 posted on 02/07/2012 11:20:42 AM PST by EternalVigilance (It is very difficult, if not impossible, to reach those who deny what is self-evident.)
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To: Grunthor

SInce you like to ask pointless questions in an effort to divert from the topic, I have a question for you:

http://www.rebeccakiessling.com/about_rebecca.html

Grunthor, meet Rebecca. Since she is a product of rape, I’d like to know if you want to explain to her that her life is worth less than yours or mine, and that by giving birth to her, she imprisoned & punished her mother??

That’s my question for you. But since you seem to play the avoidance game, I won’t hold my breath waiting for an answer.


281 posted on 02/07/2012 11:37:13 AM PST by surroundedbyblue (Live the message of Fatima - pray & do penance!)
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To: Grunthor; xzins; wagglebee
I volunteered at a Crisis Pregnancy Center for a number of years counseling both women in unplanned pregnancies and those who were post-abortion. Any woman who undergoes an abortion is ALSO a victim. They may not think that at first, maybe not for a long time, but, eventually, they come to realize that they had been sold a bill of goods. They were told, "it's only a blob of tissue"; "abortion will solve your problem"; "plenty of women do this"; etc. But, not until years later do they realize that something within them also died that day, part of their soul.

Many post abortion women go through denial but it is something that NEVER goes away, it is always there. Alcohol, drugs, sex, nothing makes that guilt go away. Some women try suicide, some try to get pregnant again (an atonement baby), some bury themselves in self-destructive relationships or inappropriate ones. Until a woman "comes clean", which is dealing with what she did, why she did it, who else was involved, deals with her anger, her guilt, her self-hatred and accepts the humanity of her child and allows herself to mourn and forgive, she will never heal.

Abortion is a terrible scar on our country. It has destroyed whole families and millions of women AND men are the walking wounded. I pray that abortion, one day, will not have to be outlawed because it will be unthinkable. Regardless of how a woman gets pregnant, that child is part of her and she will always live with the consequences of what she did about it. Pregnancy rarely results from rape, but when it does, abortion is the LAST thing this traumatized woman needs. She needs attention, love, acceptance, emotional support and people with her who will walk with her through the healing process.

Even a woman who is raped and gets pregnant, knows that the child is half hers. I personally have known both women who have gone through with the pregnancy and those who abort after rape. By far, those that go through with the pregnancy and either keep the child or give it up for adoption are the healthier emotionally of the two. Women who abort after rape go through two traumas. One the rape, and two, the abortion. The guilt and loss is the same.

Allowing abortion for exceptions other than the woman's immediate loss of life (i.e.; ectopic pregnancy) sends the message that the child is not to be considered. If the condition of how the pregnancy happened is allowed to determine the legality, then the right to life of the human being is secondary and it CANNNOT be. To do so, as it already has, leads to the slippery slope we are already on and why there are over one million abortions every year, child abuse up 2000%, and euthanasia for the sick and elderly right around the corner. I pray everyone gives this serious thought. ALL life is precious to the one who creates all life and NO life is a mistake.

308 posted on 02/07/2012 10:20:16 PM PST by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: Grunthor
“who am I to force a rape victim to do anything?”

I understand your point, and my argument used to be "the semen of the rape victim is the continuing assault of the rapist. And that's true. Were that able to be flushed prior to any conception, then I'm absolutely in favor of doing all in our power to get that presence out of the victim before any conception takes place. That is not impossible given the nature of fertilization in the human species.

However, once there is a union between sperm and egg, then we are talking about life. It is a separate life, and it is undeniably human life and not any other kind.

For the sake of protecting humanity from the demons that beset us with eugenics, euthanasia, cloning, and population control, we MUST preserve God's law that life is sacred.

As for the ark carrying that child, the woman, I would keep pushing the envelope of how soon a child can viably be delivered, and I would then attempt to deliver that child as soon as possible. The ark could then decide to adopt the baby out or raise it.

But that is the difference between choosing to dismember a human without trial and mercy. I truly believe that in the long run we do the ark a greater service with that non-deadly outcome than if she has memories of brutality and destruction.

309 posted on 02/08/2012 5:37:01 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Pray Continued Victory for our Troops Still in Afghan!)
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