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To: sitetest
If you would like to argue that a Mormon ward bishop is a senior cleric in the LDS church, then make your case - making ad hominem attacks doesn't quite do it.
I don't have to "make my case" as my case is established as you yourself admit between your spits and sputters--wards and stakes are administrative-geographical units larger than a parish, or a meeting hall in the language of Mormonism; they would be more comparable to a diocese to use the language of Catholicism or other episcopal Christian sects (I mean small-e "episcopal" in its literal meaning of "rule by bishops," a form of Church government shared by Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans, and otehrs). So I stand by "senior cleric" and no amount of google-search casuistry on your part can do anything other than confirm my claim, which you have done again and again even as you insist otherwise.

You have certainly internalized Romney's style of insisting that black is white even if you aren't a Romney supporter.
332 posted on 02/03/2012 1:36:20 PM PST by Timaeus (Willard Mitt Romney Delenda Est)
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To: Timaeus
Dear Timaeus,

“I don't have to ‘make my case’ as my case is established as you yourself admit between your spits and sputters—wards and stakes are administrative-geographical units larger than a parish, or a meeting hall in the language of Mormonism; they would be more comparable to a diocese to use the language of Catholicism or other episcopal Christian sects (I mean small-e ‘episcopal’ in its literal meaning of ‘rule by bishops,’ a form of Church government shared by Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans, and otehrs).”

That isn't what I said. Here's what I actually said:

"The ward is similar to a parish church."

Wards, like parishes, are the primary, basic, and most immediate congregational unit in the LDS. Typically, wards have a few hundred members. My understanding is that most wards are split up once they get much past 500 or so members. A ward is presided over by a bishop. That makes the bishop analogous to a parish priest.

A small ward is called a branch, which is a congregation that isn't quite big enough to be a full-fledged ward. It's similar, I guess, to a mission of a parish in the Catholic Church - an outpost of the parish. Branches, when they grow big enough, become wards.

Interestingly, most wards are geographical and territorial in nature, more like how Catholic parishes once were. Although each Catholic parish still has a territory, one may freely move from parish to parish, even registering in the parish of one’s choice. In the past, one was required to register in one’s territorial parish, unless one had permission to do otherwise. My understanding is that for the most part, the LDS still functions in that way - you go to the ward in which you live.

A stake comprises a number of wards (I've read that it's typically about five to eight, sometimes as much as a dozen - the max, I've read, is 16 wards). It's somewhat analogous to a Catholic diocese, but smaller, typically, in terms of congregants and congregations. A stake is presided over by a stake president. That position is somewhat analogous to a Catholic bishop. Or maybe a stake might be more comparable to the vicariate or deanery of a Catholic diocese, presided over by vicar or dean, typically of the rank of an ordinary priest or possibly a monsignor.

I think the level above the stake is area, which has an area president, and which may be more analogous to a diocese.

Unlike the Catholic Church, there a couple of layers of hierarchy above that of the area, from what I can tell. But it seems that the area president actually is a pretty senior cleric in the LDS, unlike a bishop.

Thus, an LDS bishop is more like a parish priest, and not like a senior cleric.

Further weakening the bald assertion that an LDS bishop is a senior cleric is the fact that LDS bishops are unpaid volunteers, not full-time, paid administrators of a congregation and its assets. That means that the LDS bishop isn't even quite as high up the LDS ladder as a Catholic parish priest in the Church.


sitetest

333 posted on 02/03/2012 2:23:47 PM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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