Posted on 01/13/2012 6:14:08 PM PST by VinL
Thank you.
Did Bain invest in abortion clinics?
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Don’t know. But, if there was money to be made, I wouldn’t be surprised if Romney did. I mean, it’s free enterprise capitalism, right? That’s the American Dream! /s
In fact, Communism is just another form of Capitalism, it’s just that the State is the sole capitalist. There will always be Capital in the economy, the question is, who controls that Capital.
The issue was there. Gingrich used it. Most politicians use the issues that present themselves, especially when they’re behind. No heroism was involved, and probably not much principle either. Just politics.
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I don’t disagree. He’s running for President along with the others, they engage in politics.
Thanks for the “help”.
Guess Bain and Romney NEVER did any of those things.
Whew, what a relief!
Now he can release those tax returns he’s been refusing to show.
That should clear everything up.
I don’t have a candidate, and you didn’t get me to do a damn thing.
If you want to know something all you had to do is ask.
I have stated many times that my guy was Cain, and that I don’t want to vote for Newt, because if Cain can’t be the guy because of alleged adultery, then how can Newt be the guy as a known adulterer?
I’ve also said that if Newt gets the nomination, I’ll be voting for him.
Not very hard, you don’t have to play games with me, I’m an honest man, unlike Newt, who is an unethical player of games as I have illustrated.
Good luck with YOUR candidate. He needs it as he is an habitual shooter of his own foot.
You haven’t done anything to challenge my assertion that capitalism can neither be ethical, nor can it be unethical. Only a human being can choose between right and wrong.
What’s ironic to me is that people like you want to defeat Romney so badly that you’ve lost track of whom the actual enemy is, and you have tossed your principals out the window at the same time supporting an obvious progressive like Gingrich.
I’ve told other this before, but it seems like you need to be told too.
You don’t defeat the devil by selling your soul, in fact, that’s how you get owned.
I have the same concern, Hoodat.
Put bluntly, a central problem for me is: How does the Father of ObamaCare kill his own "legitimate" offspring upon accession to the Oval Office?
To me, Romney is a defective candidate for POTUS, not because he follows (bad) law blindly as it were; but because he does not "resonate" to the Constitution, to the Spirit of just and equitable law....
He presents a most brilliant "exterior" to the public. What I wonder about is what is going on in the "interior" of the man. Sometimes I find myself wondering whether anybody's "at home"....
Santorum is a good man. (I gather you are a "character voter," like me.) If he is the GOP nominee, I'll be glad to vote for him.
Thank you so very much for writing, Hoodat!
All right, Chris, your comments speak for themselves.
Yeah, they do, that’s why I said them, state the obvious more please.
Yeah, they do, that’s why I said them, state the obvious more please.
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I would have. I just didn’’t wish to embarrass or offend you.
I’ve nothing to be embarrassed or offended about, sir.
If you want to nominate someone who openly attacks our economic system because his opponent got under his skin, then, by all means, you are certainly free to do that.
It is Newt Gingrich who should be embarrassed.
I don't think Friedman would agree with such a formulation nor do I. Friedman said,
What kind of society isn’t structured on greed? The problem of social organization is how to set up an arrangement under which greed will do the least harm; capitalism is that kind of a system.
Max Wber says something similar:
The impulse to acquisition, pursuit of gain, of money, of the greatest possible amount of money, has in itself nothing to do with capitalism. This impulse exists and has existed among waiters, physicians, coachmen, artists, prostitutes, dishonest officials, soldiers, nobles, crusaders, gamblers, and beggars. One may say that it has been common to all sorts and conditions of men at all times and in all countries of the earth, wherever the objective possibility of it is or has been given. It should be taught in the kindergarten of cultural history that this naïve idea of capitalism must be given up once and for all.
I think the genius of our Founders was that they set up a political system that recognized human behavior for what it is, i.e., a given, and did not try to impose their own utopian version of how man should behave.
You are missing the point. Apparently on purpose.
To call Newt and those who are calling for scrutiny on predatory corporate practices ANTI-CAPITALIST is really no different that those who would accuse the pro-life movement of being ANTI-MEDICINE or people who believe in intelligent design ANTI-SCIENCE.
Indeed the left uses the ANTI-SCIENCE argument against anyone who hasn't bought into the global warming fraud.
If what I am saying about predatory corporate practices and ethical capitalism is ANTI-CAPITALIST, then those of you who oppose Abortion on moral grounds are just being ANTI-MEDICINE.
FWIW I suspect that dozens of Bain Controlled Companies contribute to Planned Parenthood on a regular basis. So the answer to your non-sequitor is... yes.
Once a few misguided souls on our side start debating good and bad capitalism (whatever that is) you know its almost over. We must stay disciplined and focused on attacking liberalism and socialism.
You didn’t understand the point of my post.
Heil Comrade, Finny. Do you guys have any idea what you sound like? I would get angry, but it ain’t worth my time. Geesh.
I ain’t playing that game, but go ahead. I won’t stop you.
Zucotti Park, anyone? LOLOL!
For whatever reason, we disagree, but I like your style.
#256 is on the money.
Here's from another source at conservative Forbes.com. See the underlined below.
In 1999, in the absence of a satisfactory offer for the purchase of Dade, Romney had Dade take on loans so that it could buy out half the shareholders. As a result, Bain extracted $242 million out of the business shortly before it went bankrupt.Dade’s business prospered. From 1995 to 1998, Dade’s annual sales rose from $614 million to $1.3 billion. Its assets grew from $551 million to $1.5 billion. But Dade’s long-term liabilities also grew from $298 million to $816 million. By 2002, liabilities reached $2 billion. By leveraging the company so highly in order to pay out Bain, Romney exposed Dade to high risk. When there were some hiccups (the euro declined, interest rates rose, a facility was delayed), Dade went bankrupt.
In the bankruptcy (2002), Romney was accused of “unjust enrichment” and Bain Capital had to relinquish its remaining stake in Dade. But there were no further repercussions. Romney kept the $342 million. The other creditors didn’t fare so well.
"Ad-MITT Romney, That You're a Vulture Capitalist"
Heil Comrade, Finny. Do you guys have any idea what you sound like. I would get angry, but it ain’t worth my time. Geesh.
Zucotti Park, anyone? LOLOL!
I do appreciate your post from the NY Post. At least it was from a conservative commentator But I must respecfully disagree.
I was with an investment firm in the eighties and nineties that did precisely what Bain does except the firm
acquired troubled banks and S and Ls. The objective was to buy the troubled bank, recapitalize it with either
public investors or private funds we raised, restructure it, hold it for a period of time and then sell it to
attain profit for all investors in the fund as well as the firm. Sometimes we would buy it from other owners and
sometimes we would bid on failed banks the government took over so the government could offset some of the
taxpayer loss they sustained in paying out the depositors thru FDIC. From a business person’s perspective it is
cheaper to buy a distressed entity like a bank if you want entre into the industry than starting it up from
scatch because the shell (or the “carcass” as progressives would characterize it in the vulture storyline)
already has a base of depositors you do not have to go out and find.Sometimes we would get ahead of ourselves as
the bank valuation upticked and the industry soared and borrow a bit too much (”loot” in progressive terms) to
take out profits and try to grow into the next deal and sometimes we were not aggressive enough in our laying on
debt to grow into the next deal.It is a judgement call and those with a hindsight crystal ball could criticize
the judgement calls in retrospective as does the author of the article you posted. As with any portfolio, there
were failed bank investments in the portfolio, most were marginally profitable and a small minority were
spectacular winners that accounted for well above average returns for the overall portfolio of banks.Pretty much
fit the overall profile of a Bain returns.
Our objective was neither noble or nefarious. It was profit and the nobility of saving and creating jobs is
oftimes the byproduct of the purest form of free enterprise that Bain and the investment firm I worked for
practiced.
But I suppose if one wants to encapsulate what we did in political terms for a soundbite:A bunch of fat cat
vultures picked over the carcass of a company, looted it, fired the employees and went on vacation!
No, I'm just not letting you reframe the argument to your strawman.
The argument is being made that Bain was "unethical" in it's business practices. Several posters have posted details showing that Bain was not the villain it's been portrayed as. No one has defined how they are applying the term ethical, or any of the pejortives being applied to venture capitalism.
None of us want Romney, but attacking him with lies and an assault on free enterprise is not only wrong it is self destructive. Romney will probably have a solid response to this attack at the next debate and it will probably propel him to the nomination. So much for your "ethical capitalism" and those who would wish to have the power to implement it.
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