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To: Jonty30
He is not an isolationist. He wants to trade with other nations, be friends with them, and respect their sovereignty - not build "walls" so to speak. Some would argue that what actually is "isolationist" is to have a foreign policy that is aggressive, and controlling or manipulative... because ultimately, that creates enemies or negative feelings toward the US, is that what we want?

As far as what you said about Israel - I disagree, because if we give 5 times as much to Israel's enemies, then cutting aid to both sides ends being a net advantage for Israel.

Let me ask you this... How would you feel if another nation, of even a global organization like the U.N ignored our independence and desire for sovereignty, and did things to get control over us, disrespecting our constitution or the will of the people? Would you like that?

42 posted on 01/09/2012 12:58:53 AM PST by incindiary (http://youtu.be/ifJG_oFFDK0)
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To: incindiary
How would you feel if another nation, of even a global organization like the U.N ignored our independence and desire for sovereignty, and did things to get control over us, disrespecting our constitution or the will of the people? Would you like that?

The U.N., no. It's an organization mostly of tyrants and dictators.

Ignoring this part, I think you are falling into moral equivalence. To take an extreme example: did we have the right to get control over Hitler and disrespect their sovereignty? Of course, because they were a threat to our freedom.

Do Israel's enemies threaten our freedom? I think so. Does our support for allies against them cause them to threaten our freedom? I don't see the logical argument for that. They wish to triumph over all free nations and bring them under the rule of Islam. To them, we are their eternal enemies until we are subdued.

We have the right to intervene for our own protection, that is not questionable, IMHO. We can debate where that is justified, how much, at what cost, when, etc. But not the basic concept. All governments, all nations are not morally equivalent. There are very bad and dangerous ones out there. Always will be.

46 posted on 01/09/2012 1:16:04 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: incindiary

“He wants to trade with other nations, be friends with them, and respect their sovereignty - not build “walls” so to speak. Some would argue that what actually is “isolationist” is to have a foreign policy that is aggressive, and controlling or manipulative... because ultimately, that creates enemies or negative feelings toward the US, is that what we want?”

Those same words could have come right out of Obama’s mouth.

Blame America first.

Frankly, as a country, I don’t want to be liked.

I want to be feared.


47 posted on 01/09/2012 1:17:41 AM PST by dixiechick2000 (Proud barbarian TEA Party SOB and an evil Capitalist.)
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To: incindiary

Prior to giving aid to Muslim countries, there were many attacks upon Israel. That aid bought the world peace.

If trade would give us the peace that we seek, there would have been peace between Israel and the Palestineans, because Israel at one time had a thriving trade with Palestine.

I’m more tham willing to cut AID to the Israel and the Muslim world, but there will be one of two paths, or both to take. We will either end up sending soldiers to help protect Israel or we will end up dropping nukes on the Muslim countries.

You tell me which is the preferable path.


48 posted on 01/09/2012 1:19:06 AM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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