Ron Paul: ‘Israel should be the Hong Kong of the Middle East’

Washington Post ^ | 01/08/2012 | Felicia Sonmez

[Lattero]

At a campaign event that drew more than 300 people here late Sunday afternoon, Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) defended his Israel policy in response to a question from an undecided voter, an answer that included, in part, the suggestion that Israel “should be the Hong Kong of the Middle East.”

“I would want to maintain very close relations with Israel,” Paul said. “I’d want to be a good friend of Israel. And I also want to respect them in many ways that I do not think the United States should undermine their sovereignty in any way.”

He went on to defend his position that the United States should not provide foreign aid to Israel and should not “tell them what to do.”

“If they want to have a peace treaty with their neighbors and they think they can work it out, they shouldn’t have to ask us for permission,” Paul said. “They shouldn’t have to ask us permission to defend their borders. That should be their business. But also, I do not believe that I should take money from anybody here and send money to Israel.”

He then rounded out his answer with the Hong Kong comparison. “We should be friends,” he said. “We should trade with them. I would encourage them to become the Hong Kong of the Middle East, or something like that. You know, have a really affluent society.”

[dixiechick2000]

Maybe your time in HK colored your view.

Was communism good for you?

BTW, personal attacks aren’t welcome here.

I’m not a simpleton.

[cynwoody]

Foreign aid anyone????????

Actually, I'd start with domestic aid.

[nathanbedford]

I mean Michael Scheurer, the adjunct professor of security studies at Georgetown University, Washington, the man who served 22 years in the CIA as head of and chief adviser to the CIA's Bin Laden Issue Station, a unit dedicated to tracking the al-Qaeda leader between 1996 and 2005, the man of whom Osama bin Laden on videotape said:

"If you want to understand what's going on, and if you would like to get to know some of the reasons for your losing the war against us," he said, "then read the book of Michael Scheuer."

Michael Scheuer uttered the quote you cited without context to describe the entrenched wrongheadedness of American policy concerning Israel, Islam, the war on terror, and what it would take to change the Washington mindset.

I invite you to read an illuminating article in the New Statesman here:

http://www.newstatesman.com/north-america/2011/09/bin-laden-cia-scheuer-qaeda

The article contains the following illuminating quotes which provide the background for the quotation you have given and which has much to say about our relationship with Israel and what happens to those impertinent enough to question it. Some excerpts appear immediately below:

Scheuer often singles out Israel for criticism, arguing that the US's "unquestioning support" for the Jewish state's dispossession of the Palestinians has helped radicalise young men across the Muslim world, boost al-Qaeda's status and endanger US national security. He has received hate mail and death threats in response, and says: "The anger within the Jewish community in the US towards me is quite extraordinary." He argues that he was sacked from a post at the Jamestown Foundation in 2009 for his anti-Israeli remarks.

…

Scheuer has admirers on the left and the right. The former quote his views on the link between US foreign policy and the al-Qaeda threat; the latter point to his support for near-indiscriminate military action against terrorist groups, the use of "extraordinary rendition" and CIA special prisons, and his relaxed attitude towards "collateral damage". "Killing in large numbers is not enough to defeat our Muslim foes," Scheuer insists in Imperial Hubris. "With kill­ing must come a [General] Sherman-like razing of infrastructure."

His argument seems to be that Washington has two options: either it changes its "failed policies" in the Muslim world or it embarks on a mass killing spree against suspected terrorists. He remains unapologetic about this. "America today is one big Israel," he says. "All it has to defend itself is the intelligence services and the military, because our politicians will not address the issues that are at play."

I ask again what do we get out of our relationship with Israel? A man who should know, a man whom Osama bin Laden confirms understands him and why he is making war on us, says Israel is a major contributing factor. The enemy says that our relationship makes United States a target. By extension, it makes us a target for a nuclear strike. Against that, what do we get from our relationship with Israel?

Your answer is conclusionary, to withdraw from Israel as to commit some sort of slow suicide, but it appears without any support in fact, logic, or even support by appeal to authority.

Our special relationship with Great Britain can be debated on its own terms. Our relationship with Israel should be evaluated on its own terms. If we are making a mistake with Great Britain it hardly justifies making a second mistake with Israel. If we are not making a mistake with Great Britain, it does not mean that we are not making a mistake with Israel. I ask again, what do we get out of our relationship with Israel?

What we get out of our relationship with Israel should be evaluated on its own terms and those terms should be the security of the United States, not the career advancement of the politicians importuned by the Israeli lobby.

So it comes down to this:

On one hand we have our professional spy catcher telling us that our relationship with Israel-among other reasons, especially our support of Saudi Arabia- is provoking an enemy to make terrorist attacks on the homeland. The enemy himself confirmed this. The enemy still exists and could potentially acquire an atomic bomb, smuggle it into America and detonate it in one or more American cities.

On the other hand we have vague generalities about "democracy" and "slow suicide" and quotations without context.

[mvpel]

I don't think "billions per year" is accurate.

United States Foreign Aid Summary Chart

2010 saw about $3.2 billion in US tax money go to Israel, and earlier years were around $2.5 to $3 billion. Israel is the largest cumulative foreign aid recipient of the US since WW-II. One third of all US foreign aid goes to Israel and Egypt, both of which are not developing countries.

[D-fendr]

Thanks. I looked at the chart before posting and just missed it.

I still think it’s well spent. Same enemies, efficient military.

Egypt? Not so much.

thanks for your reply.

[mvpel]

I still think it’s well spent. Same enemies, efficient military.

Right, but the money also props up their union-Marxist-socialist public sector, and has resulted in what one Israeli analyst described as "an entire country on the dole," because they don't have to spend their own money for their own defense.

An Israeli friend of mine has observed this problem first hand. Foreign aid smothers local innovation and local business.

[D-fendr]

The stats I could find indicate the opposite:

In 2008, Israel spent $16.2 billion on its armed forces, making it the country with the biggest ratio of defense spending to GDP; 2011: $16 billion; Percent of GDP: 6.9%.

During 1950–66, Israel spent an average of 9% of its GDP on defense. Defense expenditures increased dramatically after both the 1967 and 1973 wars. They reached a high of about 24% of GDP in the 1980s, but have since come back down to about 9%, about $15 billion, following the signing of peace agreements with Jordan and Egypt. In 2008, Israel spent $16.2 billion on its armed forces, making it the country with the biggest ratio of defense spending to GDP and as a percentage of the budget of all developed countries.($2,300 per person).

For comparison, the U.S. spends about 4.7%.

[mvpel]

But if they can afford to spend $16.2 billion a year, why do they need billions of dollars a year from American taxpayers too? Why should US taxpayers foot the bill for 15-20% of Israel’s military budget?

[D-fendr]

But if they can afford to spend $16.2 billion a year, why do they need billions of dollars a year from American taxpayers too?

To have more defense (and offense) than they would without it. I wish they had many billions more, and they're spending a huge amount of their GDP already. I don't get the logic of "if they can spend 16, why give them three?" They can use that and more.

Why should US taxpayers foot the bill for 15-20% of Israel’s military budget?

As I said before, because it's good defense spending for us, particularly now with the growing Iran threat. It may come down to those billions saving our ass - equipment and lives, both civilian and military. As well as the M.E. and Europe.

[D-fendr]

This is at a military parade where new missiles were displayed. You can see Mahmoud in the center of the reviewing stand. This celebration of the new missiles was held the day before Ahmadinejad flew to New York.

The left banner says "Down with America" in English. "Death to America" banners were also flying.

One of Ahmadinejad's promises is "Iran is the most powerful nation on earth." Iran is developing nuclear weapons for their missiles; they have launched satellites on their own rockets, using technology very similar to that used in ICBMs. they chant "Death to America" at military parades and call us the "Great Satan."

I can see sleeping through Hitler in 1932-1939, but not this.

Israel is our strongest military ally against Iran.

[dixiechick2000]

I know who Michael Scheurer is, and I don’t ascribe to his sentiments at all.

I know you don’t like Israel, and I know you don’t like Jews, no matter how well you articulate your argument.

[nathanbedford]

It is clear from this exchange that one of the two of us is behaving shamefully.

[mvpel]

This is at a military parade where new missiles were displayed.

They look like they'll shred very nicely when a THAAD interceptor rips through them at two miles per second.

[dixiechick2000]

Given this...

http://caucuses.desmoinesregister.com/2012/01/03/former-cia-agent-michael-scheuer-endorses-ron-paul/

that’s all I need to know about you on the subject of Israel.

[nathanbedford]

Your first post on this thread to me proclaims,

"I support Israel because I’m a Christian.

Plain and simple..."

Putting aside whether anyone in the world should have the slightest interest in what you support the "why" of your support is of passing interest, you say you support Israel because Allah commands it.

Oh, I have that wrong? Not Allah but God? Oh I see, your support of Israel is as rational and well grounded in logic as an eighth century Mulah.

Your next articulation in support of Israel is to accuse me of being a bigot. When I make as mild and nonconfrontational an objection as a Christian conscience permits, "one of the two of us has behaved shamefully" you compound your sin with smearing guilt by association.

You sound more like Debbie Wasserman Schultz blaming the tea party for the Arizona shooting when you say that you know all you need to know about me because Michael Scheurer endorsed Ron Paul, a candidate whom I oppose.

Madam, get your head out of your self-righteous ass, stop playing the bigotry card, stop playing guilt by association, stop substituting character assassination for logic, start making your point on the basis of reason. In short, start behaving like a decent Christian.

[Graewoulf]

Thanks for compiling these hotlinks on the Paul’s. A lot of voters like them, and I am trying to figure out why. These hotlinks will provide accurate quotes, and perhaps why the quotes work for those who vote for Paul.

Will some of Paul’s ideas make it into the Nominee’s platform? Your hotlinks may help predict which ones might. Thanks again.

[dixiechick2000]

Projection much?

[Minus_The_Bear]

You are correct that China and the party doesn't do anything except to benefit the state.

That is why they allow Hong Kong to keep the freedoms (economic & otherwise) they enjoy.

It is for selfish reasons. I agree that China is ruthless and could take them away at anytime.

[Minus_The_Bear]

"Israel has one good advantage that the Arab nations do not: they have their own version of Silicon Valley, high tech wise."

_______________________________________

Yep. More innovations and inventions that you use in your everyday life have come from Israel. That is why I support them. In fact, Apple is making huge investments there right now.

[nathanbedford]

You project bigotry by accusing me of "hating Jews."

You project guilt on me by association.

And then you insinuate (you do not have the courage, evidently, to be explicit) that I engage in "projection."

Is hypocrisy a genetic condition in your family or do you take hypocrisy pills?