[Sudetenland]

No, they just don't believe in Utopian dreams. They see men for what men are and reality for what reality is. Libertarianism is just as Utopian as is Marxism and just as unworkable. If you begin with a false premise about human nature, they you will never come up with a workable socio-political system.

Liberty alone is nothing more than democracy. To enjoy liberty, one needs responsibility and one need government to protect that liberty. If you don't understand that man is first a venal and selfish being, then you will always be wrong.

[garbanzo]

If you don't understand that man is first a venal and selfish being, then you will always be wrong.

But man is also a noble and compassion being as well. But you seem to fall into the idea that government is somehow better than the rest of us and knows what's best for us poor venal souls just like the liberals. Which is why there is increasingly little difference between the Republicans and Democrat.

[garbanzo]

If you don't understand that man is first a venal and selfish being, then you will always be wrong.

But man is also a noble and compassion being as well. But you seem to fall into the idea that government is somehow better than the rest of us and knows what's best for us poor venal souls just like the liberals. Which is why there is increasingly little difference between the Republicans and Democrats.

[trisham]

I've posted this a number of times. It seems that many of those who claim to be Libertarians and many of those who support Ron Paul appear to have no real idea of what Libertarianism represents, which imho is very dangerous.

Thanks for your posts regarding Ron Paul and Libertarianism.

From Wikipedia:

Libertarianism

Overview

Libertarian schools of thought differ over the degree to which the state should be reduced. Anarchists advocate complete elimination of the state.

Minarchists advocate a state which is limited to protecting its citizens from aggression, theft, breach of contract, and fraud. Some libertarians go further, such as by supporting minimal public assistance for the poor.[4] Additionally, some schools are supportive of private property rights in the ownership of unappropriated land and natural resources while others reject such private ownership and often support common ownership instead.[5][6][7]

Another distinction can be made among libertarians who support private ownership and those that support common ownership of the means of production; the former generally supporting a capitalist economy, the latter a libertarian socialist economic system.

In some parts of the world, the term "libertarianism" is synonymous with Left anarchism.[8]