Posted on 12/20/2011 6:54:22 PM PST by sukhoi-30mki
Boeing, loser in Japan, eyes more fighter contests
(Reuters) - Losing a big Japanese order to Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) was clearly a disappointment for Boeing Co (BA.N), but a $29.4 billion order from Saudi Arabia for F-15 fighter jets and several other competitions will keep the company in the fighter business for now.
The U.S. government and Saudi Arabia are finalizing a letter of agreement on the sale of 84 Boeing F-15s, and may announce that deal soon, according to one source familiar with the discussions, who was not authorized to speak publicly.
Boeing, which has rung up big orders for its commercial planes this year, also remains competitive in several other big-ticket military competitions in South Korea, Brazil, United Arab Emirates, Malaysia and possibly Denmark, company officials say.
"Japan was one competition. There are lots of others to go after," said Boeing spokesman Paul Lewis, saying that both Boeing's F/A-18 Super Hornet, and the new Silent Eagle, a partly stealthy version of the F-15, had future business prospects.
"We're delivering airplanes today with a known cost and known schedule... I think it's a bit presumptuous and bit of a stretch to be talking about the demise of our fighter airplanes," he said.
Todd Harrison, a defense analyst with the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, called the Japan decision a clear victory for Lockheed and the F-35 program office "at a time when they are worried about losing orders from other nations."
He said Boeing's F/A-18 Super Hornet and Lockheed's F-35 would remain in close competition over the next few years.
"The Joint Strike Fighter program is by no means in the clear," said Harrison, adding that any move by the U.S. Navy to scale back its planned
(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...
The only thing that surprised me is that typically they stipulate that the a/c MUST be a twin-engine.
I really want to know if they’re buying off-the-shelf, because of tech concerns and also because Japan is in bad financial straits:
http://prestowitz.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/12/15/make_japan_buy_the_whole_plane
It’s still unclear, yet hugely important. :(
Why does China have it’s own version of AEGIS? Cuz of Japan’s MSDF guys submitting to simple Chinese honey-traps.
And there are other examples.
Clyde Prestowitz was an Obama campaign adviser.
I was a zoomie, but I understood that when flying over water, more than one engine beats the big quiet, followed by spincrashburndie.
And Japan is an island. Sure, Taiwan uses the 16, but they are closer to the mainland, and they gonna die quick anyway.
/johnny
Japan’s main strike fighter is their single-engined F-2 so I guess they are comfortable with that.
It is a single-engine. Are they comfortable with it?
The funny thing back then was that time and again they’d alleged that twin engine requirement was a make-or-break; using the F-16 as a base for the total project took the US side completely by surprise: it was a bolt from the blue, totally counter to all expectation.
So...often this kind of thing is highly political, and I think in Japan’s case more than in most others.
I realllly wonder what this deal will be.
If the honey traps are getting Aegis for China, who says it isn’t our own nerds to blame? China reportedly has the designs for all our nuclear weapons too.
He was. And to the Clinton Administration.
But look into it —he was the only one at the time raising the alarm about giving away too much stuff to the Japan side in the FS-X (later the Japanese F-2) deal.
The attitude was, “What’s good for General Dynamics is good for the USA”. In most things that right —up to a POINT.
His message at the time was, “The US auto industry is hollowing-out, but wait until you give away AEROSPACE”.
I love Japan, sure, but you don’t think they’d try to squeeze every last drop of aeronautical know-how out of the USA?
You’re out of your mind.
Your point of departure was that that Chinese honey-traps were to blame. And mine was too. And the reality was that, as well.
But then you asked, "Who is saying that it was NOT our own nerds to blame?"
*I* am saying they were not to blame --the Japanese MSDF guys who fell for the Chinese honey-traps were to blame.
Is this some weird riddle, like one hand clapping? You've lost me.
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I’m feeling mixed emotions about this deal. On one hand, I like Japan’s fit for the F-35 when it comes to bringing down the US unit price, interoperability and capabilities, but I think a serious opportunity was lost when we didn’t get Japan and South Korea to buy and build the Silent Eagle as a joint development.
Had that happened, positioning different assembly points in both nations, a more serious defense partnership could have taken hold between the two nations, both of whom have issues, but both also know there are bigger enemies, or potential enemies, than each other.
I wonder if they even tried.
Will it bring down the unit prices for the US? I’m unsure of that since Japan’s (initial) order is pretty small and the possibility of cuts to the US order still exists for next year.
About the Silent Eagle, Japan was supposedly not interested in any F-15 derivative for industrial reasons; which is why only the Super Hornet was offered. The requirements here are also somewhat different since South Korea requires greater strike capability while the Japanese had used their F-4s primarily in the air defense role.
Anyway the ROK deciding to buy the F-35 wouldn’t be a bad thing for bilateral relations either.
It is my understanding that like most other Japanese fighter programs, the F-35 will be assembled in Japan and the will get some parts manufacturing contracts.
Japan’s deal includes a work package for a domestic final-assembly-and-checkout facility much like Italy’s, as well as component and subcomponent build work in country. A value for the work package has not been provided.
Sounds like we got down to the heart of the honey - trap matter. Thank you both for educating me. Now, how can I expose some “disinformation” to some of that sweet honey? ;)
Why does China have it’s own version of AEGIS?
—
Not their version - ours. Another Clinton gift via his naval exchange program.
Ah, I was posing the question merely to answer it.
Yes, that precious AD tech was transferred via espionage.
Aside from the comely Chinese honey-trap op, there was also a matter of some Japanese MSDF guys using thumb-drives to transfer pornography:
Alas, some of these same Japanese “Navy” guys used the same thumb-drives at work —my understanding is that some of them were compromised and this led to some great transfer of naval tech know-how in another notorious incident.
genki?
I heard now a lot of people are rocking GREIGER COUNTERS...?!
Honma ka na? >_<
Hi! Yeah, doing fine. I have a plan to make a million yen. I am going to print up some nice T-shirts saying “Fukushima Gals are HOT!” and sell them at Shinjuku Station.
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