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To: af_vet_rr

I think you are being absolute. So we agree that oil falls into a national security category? Why is that only national security and not economic? I think the two are inseparable.

You are implying that I (and others who agree that there can be economic reasons to go to war) advocate starting several wars a year with different countries over the price of shoes or automobiles? Do you really think that, or are you being rhetorical?

I don’t see anyone advocating going to war with China over something like intellectual property, and most people including me would think it would be silly to do so, so I don’t think it applies, as do not local issues along a narrow corridor along the Rio Grande where both countries have legitimate rights to their side. Those kind of things can be handled with tarriffs and such.

But if you are a desert country, and your main and perhaps only source of water happens to be a river that flows to you through a hostile country, that wouldn’t be an act of war?

If someone like Saddam Hussein, with the fourth largest military in the world at the time had kept Kuwait and gone into Saudi Arabia (which I have no doubt they would had squashed like a bug, Saudi F-15s not withstanding) and decided to cut off oil shipments, that sure seems like an economic and national security issue right there.

If you don’t think oil is as vital to our lives as food and water, I think you aren’t paying attention. Without oil, we don’t have jobs, money food or even potable water.

Because we had a vested, selfish interest in this situation does not diminish the fact that we didn’t approach it with a total war and destruction objective.

Iraq is not the same as Germany and Japan, and I never said that it was with respect to the environment. But I do maintain, and history has recorded that there were many who thought that the occupation of Japan was doomed to failure, that they were a feudal society that would not change. And I also maintain that we have not yet proven that it cannot be done, since there has never been an effort like that in Iraq, and to say it cannot be done is baseless.

Many people advocate the use of nuclear weapons, none of this silly screwing around with the lives or our men. The life of one American soldier is not an even trade for 200 million of those Arabs. Just turn it all into glass, they say.

Well, I disagree.

There are many of us who think it is right to back up our principles with our blood and our treasure (even if our overriding concern is self-interest) and our principles don’t include simply loading up a fleet of B-52’s with MK84s and carpet bombing the country from one end to the other unless we are forced to.

I think advocating that approach or none at all is hypocrital.


74 posted on 12/21/2011 2:37:45 PM PST by rlmorel ("A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." Winston Churchill)
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To: rlmorel
I think you are being absolute. So we agree that oil falls into a national security category? Why is that only national security and not economic? I think the two are inseparable.

As long as we can provide for our own energy needs, which we can if we chose to do so as you pointed out, oil should not be a national security issue. Have we made oil a national security issue that we are willing to invade other countries just over oil? Not yet, although the environmental nuts opposed to more drilling and more nuclear energy are hell-bent on sending us down that road.

Ironically, your example, Iraq, did go to war with Kuwait solely over economic reasons, and that didn't go to well for them.

You are implying that I (and others who agree that there can be economic reasons to go to war) advocate starting several wars a year with different countries over the price of shoes or automobiles? Do you really think that, or are you being rhetorical?

I'm saying that there is no reason for the United States to go to war with anybody based solely on economic reasons. If the United States right now goes to war with somebody over economic issues, it's going to be just another case of nation building.

But if you are a desert country, and your main and perhaps only source of water happens to be a river that flows to you through a hostile country, that wouldn’t be an act of war?

But we're not a desert country and we can provide for all of our critical needs if we chose to do so.

I don’t see anyone advocating going to war with China over something like intellectual property, and most people including me would think it would be silly to do so

And it seems silly to me to go to war over resources that we already have.

And I also maintain that we have not yet proven that it cannot be done, since there has never been an effort like that in Iraq, and to say it cannot be done is baseless.

Take a wild guess at what's going on as we discuss this.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2823481/posts

They are on the path to a civil war as we speak.
75 posted on 12/21/2011 3:55:48 PM PST by af_vet_rr
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