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To: ADSUM

If I read a little further, I would have answered my own question: from newadvent.org

Moreover, baptism can more readily be applied to infants than the rite of circumcision, and by the ancient law this ceremony had to be deferred till the eighth day after birth, while baptism can be bestowed upon infants immediately after they are born, and in case of necessity even in their mother’s womb. Finally it must be borne in mind that unbaptized infants, if deprived of heaven, would not be deprived unjustly. The vision of God is not something to which human beings have a natural claim. It is a free gift of the Creator who can make what conditions He chooses for imparting it or withholding it. No injustice is involved when an undue privilege is not conferred upon a person. Original sin deprived the human race of an unearned right to heaven. Through the Divine mercy this bar to the enjoyment of God is removed by baptism; but if baptism be not conferred, original sin remains, and the unregenerated soul, having no claim on heaven, is not unjustly excluded from it.


17 posted on 12/16/2011 4:25:02 AM PST by ADSUM (Body of Christ is the Church, gathered around the crucified risen Lord and fed by Him in Communion.)
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To: ADSUM

As much as I love Catholics, I cannot agree with the idea of Baptism being a requirement of salvation. For example, the thief on the cross who said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom,” was told by Jesus, “I tell you the truth, today you shall be with me in paradise.”

The robber was not baptized; so to say that the robber did not go to heaven is to say that Jesus lied.

I am aware that baptism as a sacrament was not “instituted” until after the resurrection, but even then, in Mark we read “He who believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he who does not believe shall be damned.” Unbelief condemns; not lack of baptism. Does baptism save? Surely it does. Peter writes “baptism now saves you.”

However, baptism does not save ex opere operato. This is how you got the old conquistadors throwing water on natives and claiming they had won souls for Jesus.

I will baptize my children as soon as they are born; but if they die before being baptized, I will not fear for their salvation. We know that infants can have faith, since John the Baptist, who was unbaptized at the time, recognized Jesus was near and leapt in the womb.

And why yes, yes I am a Lutheran.
No, I am not ELCA.
Yes, I respect what you believe as a Catholic and eagerly embrace my Catholic brethren on their teaching of sacraments, even if we Lutherans don’t always see eye to eye with you.

But there is no way I can see a scriptural argument stating that baptism is a prerequisite to heaven, or that unborn, unbaptized babies are predestined to hell.


18 posted on 12/19/2011 8:06:56 AM PST by Conservaliberty (25 and conservative. I guess I have no heart, Oh, well, makes shooting the bad guys easier.)
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