Posted on 10/22/2011 9:46:46 PM PDT by goods
The NY Post wrote last Wednesday that no one told its reporter “she had to move to the back” nor did the driver in the NY World reporter incident take a stand one way or another. Additionally, the NYT in its own report writes that “no male passengers sitting at the front of the bus explicitly told a female reporter to move, but several riders said women did not belong there.” All three instances show that this policy is NOT forced on by the company nor is it forced by those riding. Instead, it is a self imposed and self accepted policy by the 99% members riding this route who at times perhaps mention it to others too.
For those who wonder why the riders live by this rule? Well, the high success rate of marriages in the Orthodox Jewish/Hasidic community is largely due to men and women intermingling less, and as such a there is reduced enticement for people to wonder outside their marriage vows.
As for the sign on the bus encouraging men and women to sit separately: It is passengers who decided to do so, and since 99% using this route don’t mind this type of seating, it indeed does not bother the owner or the drivers that the sign is up there.
Let me sit where I want.
My butt must be free!!!
IIRC, Orthodox men must go to a mikveh if they touch a woman they don’t know, on the theory that the woman might be in a state of ritual impurity. For that reason they try to avoid situations in which they might have to touch an unknown woman (including, not handing change to a cashier, but placing it on the counter).
Some ultra-Orthodox men will not even speak to a woman in public unless she is a relative (in order to avoid suspicion).
(In that vein, recall the shock of Jesus’ disciples finding that their rabbi was speaking with, and had accepted water from, an unknown woman at a well.)
This situation on a bus where women riders are in the extreme minority does de facto, if not de jure, relegate the women to the back. I guess they could partition the bus like they do houses of worship and do it by sides, but the women’s space would go to waste most of the time.
Even if one percent of women passangers are forced to sit at the back, it’s wrong.
I recall from living in Brooklyn in the 80’s that the Hasidic men would head over to Manhattan in their Hasidmobiles (big station wagons)to cruise for hookers in Times Square and around the Park. Holier than thou, not!
Let me get this clear: You lived in Brooklyn and knew that “Hasidic men” were going to Manhattan to cruise for hookers. So...you followed the Hasidmobiles to Manhattan and observed “Hasidic men” soliciting prostitutes? How many times did you do this? Did you personally observe and identify the driver of each vehicle to verify that the driver was a “Hasidic man”?
I am not “Hasidic” but I am an Orthodox Jew. I deeply resent your gross generalization that an entire segment of Orthodox Jewry are “Holier than thou, not!”. Have there been cases of Orthodox Jews behaving shamefully? Of course. But your comment suggests that based on your personal knowledge, that this was a common occurrence among Hasidic men.
I know hundreds of Hasidim and live among thousands of them and they are extremely modest in their personal behavior, extremely careful to avoid any type of improper liaison with women outside their families, extraordinarily kind, moral and decent in every way. Of course, I won’t be as presumptuous as you and assume I can generalize that every single Hasid lives a perfectly moral life, but I can testify that the overwhelming majority are living moral lives only dreamt of in other cultures.
Just saying: there are bad apples in every barrel. Sorry if I offended you.
Unfortunately there are some cultures that don't even dream of moral lives or if they do it's some twisted version of moral.
You are right to be offended, much as I am when the Irish are portrayed as habitual drunks, or as Poles might be when portrayed as stupid, or Italians as criminals, or blacks as shiftless...
Apology accepted. Thank you.
I don’t want to get into the general topic of stereotypes, but I think we can agree that, when the stereotype is being applied as if it were an accurate characterization of an entire group, it’s grossly unfair and ugly.
If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.
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We need worry less about race, ethnicity or sterotypes, and more about Judeo-Christian values.
Agree.
This week’s Torah portion is Noach (Noah), which tells that G-d brought devastation to the world because of immorality (sexual) and robbery. One of the lessons was that when immorality dominates, even the good are swept up in destruction with the evil.
As you say, we need to focus on values.
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