Posted on 09/13/2011 12:51:57 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
I’ve been leaning towards Rick Perry for a few weeks with Michele Bachmann as my second choice if he implodes. My first preference didn’t change last night but my second place choice did.
Last night Michele Bachmann lost my support.
She not only lost it for consideration as a presidential nominee, she lost it period. Full stop. In my view she beclowned herself beyond redemption and the sooner she disappears from the national stage the better.
For reasons that seem to have more to do with being behind Ron Paul in the polls and trying to scab some of the Paul supporters than any policy reason she made an unhinged attack on Perry on what should be a non-issue: his never-implemented executive order making mandatory a vaccine to protect women against a virus known to cause cervical cancer. What is worse she insisted that a fringe position is, in fact, a touchstone of conservatism.
From the transcript
BACHMANN: I’m a mom. And I’m a mom of three children. And to have innocent little 12-year-old girls be forced to have a government injection through an executive order is just flat out wrong. That should never be done. It’s a violation of a liberty interest.
That’s — little girls who have a negative reaction to this potentially dangerous drug don’t get a mulligan. They don’t get a do- over. The parents don’t get a do-over. That’s why I fought so hard in Washington, D.C., against President Obama and Obamacare.
President Obama in a stunning, shocking level of power now just recently told all private insurance companies, you must offer the morning-after abortion pill, because I said so. And it must be free of charge. That same level coming through executive orders and through government dictates is wrong. And that’s why again we have to have someone who is absolutely committed to the repeal of Obamacare and I am. I won’t rest until it’s appealed.
She followed up with Greta van Susteren (skip to 1:58) in her post debate interview by saying
The problem is, it comes with some very significant consequences. There’s a woman who came up crying to me tonight after the debate. She said her daughter was given that vaccine. She told me her daughter suffered mental retardation as a result of that vaccine. There are very dangerous consequences. It’s not good enough to take, quote, “a mulligan” where you want a do-over, not when you have little children’s lives at risk.
There are several threads of crazy running through this which leads one to believe that Bachmann, who if not anti-vaccine herself, was playing to the confusion the anti-vaccine fringe has managed to throw into what should be a fairly straightforward public policy debate.
As Ben Domenech points out in his indispensable The Transom:
But here’s the real reason this is a silly debate: the policy never went into effect. Not one girl was vaccinated under the policy. Not one shot was given. Demanding apologies from Perry for a policy that never went into effect gets tiresome after a while – particularly when Mitt Romney has never apologized for his namesake health care reforms, in effect in Massachusetts still today.
There is much to be criticized in the way Perry acted but no one received a “government injection,” whatever that may be. (For a more detailed take on what is wrong with the fringe anti-Gardasil argument visit Ace. It is worth the read.)
Let’s take the easy parts first. The HPV vaccine is safe. Some 26 million doses have been distributed in the United States and to date there have been about 1500 reports of serious incidents
A serious incident is defined as:
Any VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System) report that indicated hospitalization, permanent disability, life-threatening illness, congenital anomaly or death is classified as serious. As with all VAERS reports, serious events may or may not have been caused by the vaccine. [italics mine]
Despite what you may read there is not a single fatality associated with the vaccine. Again from the CDC:
In the 32 reports confirmed, there was no unusual pattern or clustering to the deaths that would suggest that they were caused by the vaccine and some reports indicated a cause of death unrelated to vaccination. [italics mine]
The claim that Gardasil caused mental retardation is specious and seems calculated to appeal to the vaccines-cause-autism fringe. The international patient advocacy group, the Global and Regional Asperger Syndrome Partership, an organization with a vested interest in finding what causes Asperger Syndrome and autism, says:
”Congresswoman Bachmann’s decision to spread fear of vaccines is dangerous and irresponsible. There is zero credible scientific evidence that vaccines cause mental retardation or autism. She should cease trying to foment fear in order to advance her political agenda.”
Regularly on these threads we get people advocating “abstinence” as a way of combating HPV. Because sex, you know, merits cancer. The idea that we should allow some diseases free rein because we don’t like how they are spread strikes me as silly. Evidence indicates personal abstinence doesn’t work in regards to preventing the spread of HPV. It isn’t sufficient that you be abstinent. Your spouse must also have been abstinent prior to marriage and any/all former sexual partners of your spouse must have been abstinent. In the United States, by age 50 at least 80% of women will be infected with HPV.
While Bachmann is right, there is no do-over for girls who may be injured by the vaccine, she seems a lot less concerned that there is also no do-over for women who die from cervical cancer that could have been prevented. In this case Bachmann’s policy preference is the avoidance of hypothetical risk rather than preventing a real disease that kills people. This type of fuzzy – or cynically opportunistic – thinking is not what we need.
The “liberty interest” argument is just as silly. Unless you’re going to argue that every mandatory vaccine – like fluoridated water — is an affront to some “liberty interest,” using this line of attack on a vaccination that was always subject to parental consent simply defines liberty down to an absence of any personal or parental responsibility.
This particular attack was an own-goal by Bachmann in every conceivable way. It plays into the anti-science meme with which the Left is trying to festoon conservatism. Her constant invocation of “little” and “innocent” children gives one flashbacks to Hillary Clinton and her tossing the “for the children” mantra about. It was a senseless attack on Perry that played well with a segment of the debate studio audience. But it is one that makes Bachmann look extreme to the majority of GOP voters while making Perry more acceptable to nearly everyone else. If her goal was to take the lead from Rick Perry, something she can’t do even by the addition of all of Ron Paul’s supporters, she chose a suboptimal tactic.
The real question for Bachmann is, “if you had a vaccine that you knew prevented your kids from developing cancer would you support it being available.” This is all Perry did. His executive order made a very expensive vaccine affordable while at the same time allowing anyone who wanted to opt out to do so. This isn’t progressivism or liberalism. It isn’t even “compassionate conservatism.” It is common sense. In fact, it is exactly what Sarah Palin did as governor of Alaska.
Actually, her husband is a clinical therapist (Ph.D.). She’s the one with the JD, and LLM in tax law. Together, they own a counseling clinic that her husband runs.
There are two separate issues. The first one is whether or not it is appropriate to vaccinate school children against a sexually transmitted disease, requiring a parental opt-out to prevent the vaccination. On that issue, I agree that such a vaccination would only be appropriate as a parental opt-in. I think it was a bad decision by Governor Perry.
The second, and more serious issue, imo, is the one Bachmann raised implying that Perry made this bad decision because of some kind of quid pro quo with Merck (for the $5,000 campaign donation), or out of some sense of cronyism with his former chief of staff.
On the second issue, imo, Bachmann was way out of line. She skirts along the edge of directly accusing Perry of criminal conduct, and without sufficient basis for such a serious allegation.
I just heard her on Hannity, and she’s not backing off from either of those two issues. She apparently believes this is a winning strategy for her. She’s wrong. Plus, she doubled up on her wrongness by telling Greta that ridiculous story about someone’s child becoming “mentally retarded” from this vaccine.
I’m disappointed in Bachmann.
She’s much cuter in person.
How much in debt is her campaign, do you know? I’m kinda thinkin’ you ain’t privy to that info, but still I am always ready to be proven wrong.
I’m disappointed in both Bachman and Palin on this issue because they are simply ensuring that Romney will get the nomination. I’d like to ask Bachman during the debate, which she thinks was a more serious mistake, Gardisil or Obamneycare?
“Nonsense.....just because some “physician” advocates it doesn’t make it right. There are physicians that advocate abortion and assisted suicide. This is an appeal to false authority.
Bottom line is that this vaccine should only be given to adult and informed young women. Bachman was right on this issue.”
Do you have any concept of the who this “some physician” is?
He is the new head of MD Anderson Cancer Center.. the #1 cancer center in the US, which has been either #1 or 2 every year since they started rating that. Disclaimer: I work there. He is not just “some physician”, before he was hired here, he was the head of the Dana Farber cancer research facility at this little-known place called Harvard. He has been doing cancer research AND clinical treatment for decades now. They didn’t just pick him for these spots because of the MD (and Ph.D) after his name, but because he’s top-flight. He has to be to even be considered for the post. DePinho lives, sleeps, eats and breathes cancer research.
That is not “false authority”. it’s REAL AUTHORITY.. he is, in fact, an expert on cancer.
Oh Mitt, trust me. You will be so proud of me tonight!
Ah, Gardisil is Obamneycare. Why should 'we the people' accept a governor declaring a 'tax' increase to have his way because it was 'right' for HIM at the time. Are WE the people not smart enough to decide IF we should PAY for vaccines for 'sexually' active children? I mean really now we the tax payers were already funding this vaccine for the poor sexually active children.
How? How is that going to happen?
Is "I told you so" the answer?
Gardisil is hardly on the level with Obamneycare. Don’t try to equate the two. It won’t work.
Both Bachmann and Palin’s influence will wane. Bachmann’s money will dry up, and she’ll have to drop out of the race. Palin either will have to get in the race and have to take on the other candidates, or sit out. Palin does well when she can control the message. I don’t think she would do as well if she were at the podium in place of Perry, getting shots from all sides. If she sits out, she will struggle to remain relevant.
Romney won’t be able to generate the enthusiasm necessary to get the nomination. He spent enough time last night being a demagogue.
I have read that the vaccine was made an opt out as opposed to an opt in because that is the only way that private insurance would pay for the vaccine.
Really, what does Obamneycare require? Why does it NOT MANDATE US and employers and insurance companies to do this or that or get fined? I know what a MANDATE is it is a TAX that is usually hidden to accomplish something that an elected official has convinced himself it is for the 'better' good.
I think that Palin is hoping to remain relevant until the end of the race and win a seat on the ticket of the winner, as the VP. I think that she has already made the decision that will be either Bachman or Romney and is doing her best to knock Perry out of the top spot, much like Huckabee did to Romney in the last election.
I am not even going to discuss it, your comparison is so absurd.
As you wish. I am vetting candidates to discern IF they know their Constitutional role... executing mandates IS not in their Constitutional job description.
You are ridiculous because the gardisil issue is nowhere near the all encompassing issue of Obamneycare. At least Perry said it was a mistake. Romney doubles down on Obamneycare everytime the subject comes up.
Maybe you are just a Paulbot.
” He did get booed for his open borders stance. “
And rightfully so . Yet many here support him . duh !
Borders , language and culture .
Welll I could trade insults but it would be a waste of exercising my fingers. YES, Perry said it was a mistake.... WHAT was his mistake?
Tea Party is about reminding the elected ruling class that we are fed up (cute huh name of perry's book) with mandates/taxation without representation. The people who were getting mandated/taxed by Perry's executive ORDER were NEVER informed in advance their insurance premiums would be rising to cover a drug for sexually active KIDS!!!!!
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