Turkey Expels Israeli Ambassador

NYT ^ | 9/2/11 | N/A

[a_Turk]

ANKARA, Turkey (AP) — Turkey says it is expelling the Israeli ambassador and cutting military ties with Israel over the country's refusal to apologize for last year's deadly raid on a Gaza-bound flotilla.

Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said Friday Turkey is downgrading diplomatic ties to the level of second secretary and that the ambassador will leave Turkey by Wednesday.

Davutoglu also said Turkey was suspending all military agreements signed between the former allies, saying "it is time Israel pays a price."

[rawhide]

The Turks are very complicit is this. I do not understand their demand. There are trying to shift the blame away from themselves. They know they are the instigators and the main blame rest on them

[bushpilot1]

NATO needs to expel Turkey.

[a_Turk]

Turkey gets Syria, and Israel gets to keep the Golan heights? It's all a publicity stunt IMO.

[Netz]

The Turks have been planning for this for more than 4 years and now they got what they want. This whole episode or series of episodes were planned by the Muslim Turk leadership who are, every day, leading their people away from Ataturk’s progressive, secular dream to the radical Islamic nightmare, for which, eventually, they will pay. Funny, no UN condemnations for the Turk Air Force (trained and supplied by the Israelis) blasting the living daylights out of the Kurds (PKK) in Iraq, hundreds killed yet Ban Ki Moon is silent.

[a_Turk]

Israel has upgraded a few of our tanks and F4s but has been largely unreliable. And what you write about our pilots having been trained by the IDF is wrong too. The IDF used to train over Turkey for lack of land of their own. You just plain lie.

PKK is a terrorist organization and recognized as such by the US, EU, etc. There’s no problem with bombing a terrorist organization as there is precedence for that in Afghanistan and Iraq among other older cases.

Recently the PKK killed a truck load of Kurdish villagers with an RPG or two, and tried to pin it on our air strikes. The footage showed that there was no damage to the street - no crater, etc.

Kurds aren’t the same as the PKK. Don’t try and be smart. If you lay down with dogs, you’ll get up with fleas.

[a_Turk]

>> NATO needs to expel Turkey.

Fat chance.

[UKrepublican]

The Turks can go to hell.

I can only hope next time Israel doesn’t show as much
restraint. Too much PC restraint these days.

I remember the good old days when they were picking off islamo nazis for fun. Almost on a dailt basis, wherever these rates roamed, the Israelis were on their tail.

These anti semite boats should be blown out of the water.

Israel has taken enough, they need to stop being so bloody nice it is getting them nowhere!

[bayouranger]

Could you please explain to me why is it that Israel should apologize when Turkey, or moslems for that matter of fact, never apologize to Israel for all of their offenses?

[JoyjoyfromNJ]

for your review and possible ping.

[Netz]

Oh, so now you want to refute how much assistance the Israelis gave the Turks? So, I understand. Israel upgraded a few tanks, a few F-4s, that's it. They have been “unreliable”? Is that why Turkey has befriended Iran and Syria? Is that why they sponsored the Flotilla to the Gaza strip? Is that why PM Edoran embarrassed the Israeli President Shimon Peres at the economic conference at Davos a few years ago?
The PKK IS A TERRORIST organization yet you (as a Turk) befriend HAMAS, Hizbollah, Islamic Jihad, Syria (who is decimating it's own people) and Iran? All because the Israelis were “unrelaible”????

Yes, my friend the PKK is YOUR TERRORIST organization and your ship's purpose last year was to create a PROVOCATION. How would you feel if a group of Jews/Israelis assisted a PKK flotilla to Khemer? Have you seen the Israelis burn a Turkish flag in the streets of Tel Aviv? NO? I wonder why. Who is inflaming tempers in the region? Go back to your true friend, Assad, that's what you want, isn't it?

[ducttape45]

What do you expect when dealing with those who hold dear the Islamic religion. They will lie, kill and cheat all in the name of allah.

[Netz]

Note he called me a liar when I only speak the truth...sure, the truth can be painfull to extremists...

[a_Turk]

>> The Turks can go to hell.

The cold war is over, the balances are shifting, those in power in Turkey are there because the US republicans put them there, and all you folks can do is whine coz you’re too blind to see what’s going on.

This is hell, brother, get used to it.

[a_Turk]

>> Could you please explain to me

It’s not about what one deserves, but rather what one can get away with at the moment. If Israel thinks it can exist w/o Turkish help, then so be it.

[a_Turk]

It is in our national interest to deal with our neighbors in a balanced fashion. They are after all right next to us, and not in some far far away land like they are to you.

The ship obviously was used to create a situation via which to manipulate the people in the region. The Arabs love the Turks now.

10 years ago when Turkey was abiding the US embargo against Iran, the EU was trading with them. That sucked! Your cronies don't care about your embargo and we have to buy our gas from the Russians at three times the price? And why did you end up at odds with the Iranians? Because you insisted that their oil and gas should belong to you (please research before answering)?

Our Turkish system may not have much patience with folks criticizing it, but we host the Libya opposition by hosting their contact group meetings, and allow the Syrian opposition to meet in Turkey.

An apology by Israel would have made Turkey seem a powerhouse, a super power, a hero in the eyes of the common Arab. To the extent that the Arabs would have all done whatever we dictated, well — they will regardless. Israel must have decided that this would not have worked for them. No matter. We own the Arab street now. Just like the US set us up to do - republican and democrat administrations alike.

[Netz]

I appreciate your honesty a_turk. Your ideas however are all over the place and not focused on the central issue. IF Turkey wants to be a powerhouse in the region and get along with it's neighbors then Israel must be a part of the equation. Turkey was a moderator between Israel, other Arab countries and other European nations. Turkey wanted to play a fair and balanced role which is what she did until about 4 years ago. After not being accepted into the EU, Turkey MADE A STRATEGIC decision, “Go East”, befriend the Arab world by showing hatred to Israel. You may be pleasing the Islamicists and radicals in the Middle East but you are detroying the Ataturk fabric that has held Turkey together for nearly 100 years. Throw that all away, now? For what?

The West needs oil true but the division between the USA and Iran did not come about as a direct result of oil - it was a strategic asset against the USSR. Iran decided it wanted Khomeni and return the country back to the 7th century. Is that was Turkey wants to? To go back to the 7th century?
So, the Arabs love the Turks now do they? Is that what you want, to “own” the Arabs. Do they seem like a stable, progressive force in the world? Look at your pact with Syria: here today, gone tomorrow! In your previous letter you said, “lay down with dogs, wake with fleas” well, this is exactly what Turkey is doing. She put all her eggs in the Arab basket and look at Syria now! Are those the kind of people you want for friends? A minority Alawite regime killing Sunnis and Shiites? Come on A_Turk, Israel was a true friend of the Turks because the Turks were MODERATE Muslims which is VERY rare to find in the world now.

So now you supposedly “own” the Arab street - what do you propose to do with that most volatile street? What about all of Turkey's internal problems, minorities,economy, etc?

A few years ago the Turks should a television special about Israel and how she kills innocent Palestinian people. This is/was pure incitement on the part of the Turkish government. That was years before the Mavi Mamara incident. How would you feel if Israeli TV would host a special about the Armenian genocide and Turkish behavior towards the Kurds? Nice, eh? Well just imagine if the Israelis and the West decided to use blind and unfair propaganda against Turkish culture. Would you like that, would you like to see the world attacking Turkey about her dark past?

[bayouranger]

Interesting take on the situation.

Thank you.

[a_Turk]

On the story about Iran, hit the books and read up on the Anglo Persian Oil Company and where it all started in 1908 with the discovery of oil in Kuwait and Persia, and on:
In 1951, after the assassination of prime minister Ali Razmara, Dr. Mohammad Mosaddegh was elected prime minister by a parliamentary vote which was then ratified by the Shah. As prime minister, Mosaddegh became enormously popular in Iran after he nationalized Iran's petroleum industry and oil reserves. In response, the British government, headed by Winston Churchill, embargoed Iranian oil and successfully enlisted the United States to join in a plot to depose the democratically elected government of Mosaddegh. In 1953 US President Dwight D. Eisenhower authorized Operation Ajax. The operation was successful, and Mosaddegh was arrested on 19 August 1953. The coup was the first time the US had openly overthrown an elected, civilian government.

On the subject of Turkey-Israel relations look at this for example:

Troubled relations with Israel hit a new low when an Israeli protest against a Turkish television series crossed the boundaries of diplomatic civility and turned into an insult against Ambassador Oğuz Çelikkol, in a scene that appeared to be the design of hawkish Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman.
Turkish-Israeli relations have been strained since Israel's deadly offensive in the Gaza Strip, which left about 1,400 Palestinians dead, including many civilians, and brought heavy international criticism upon Israel, including accusations of war crimes and crimes against humanity by a United Nations investigation. Since the offensive, Turkish-Israeli bilateral relations have seen exchanges of harsh remarks between Israeli and Turkish officials and crisis incidents despite efforts to tone town the crisis atmosphere.
Blah blah blah.

[Netz]

A-Turk...Israel always seems ready to be honest admit mistakes when and if they occur. This is being intellectually honest. Turkey and the Arab states NEVER admit when they are wrong due (or have been wrong about anything in the past)to national and personal pride. So telling the truth is less important than pressing your agenda forward. The treatment by the Israeli Foreign Ministry was wrong and juvenille, I'll admit that but Turkey sending the IHH -sponsored Mamara ship to Gaza was a direct provocation and you know that. Many of the people on that shipped knew there was going to be violence and they of course brought along with them arms. Be honest for a change. Israel has been on the receiving end of BAD Turkish policy for years now and when they defend civilian lives by blockading HAMAS-run Gaza you try to run the blockade?? So, in effect you're telling me that HAMAS-run Gaza and the IHH organization are working hand and glove with the government of Turkey? OK, so Turkey is aiding and abbetting a Terrorist enclave. In other words, Turkey supports Terror. OK, come out and say it, Turkey supports radical Islamic terror as long as it is not on her soil, right?