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To: count-your-change
"I didn’t suggest “exotic” just more difficult which translates into more expensive if any quantity is going to be stored."

Nope. Not true. For "non-transport" use, low pressure is just fine...you just need to use bigger tanks, which are readily available, and relatively cheap. The only time ultra-high pressures are needed is when you try to use hydrogen as a transport fuel, where energy density is hugely important.

"Yes, at LOW pressure, hence low volume, amounts, no problem but when you talk about the many facilities storing the gas you don’t mention the pressures involved nor the cost of compressing and storing at high pressures. And at higher pressures hydrogen is virtually impossible to seal in as it will penetrate many metals."

Ah, yes. The standard "mantra" about the insurmountable difficulties of hydrogen storage. Yet hydrogen is in use, in hundreds and thousands of locations at low, intermediate, and high pressures, without problem, on a daily basis. And no exotic or unusual technology is needed. Yes, you "do" have to be careful in choosing the materials to use, but all the engineering to do that is "off-the-shelf". I've worked with hydrogen for years. I don't notice that properly-installed hydrogen systems are any more prone to leak that any other compressed gas system.

"Storing at home is not something I would want to do so perhaps immediate consumption by a fuel cell might be feasible but still storing gaseous hydrogen and liquid propane are very animals particularly if we’re talking about doing so at home."

People store and use gasoline and propane "at home" all the time. Hydrogen will be no different when its turn rolls around.

39 posted on 08/11/2011 6:46:30 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog

Bigger tanks equals more cost which is exactly what I said. AGAIN, I said nothing about “exotic” or “insurmountable difficulties” , those are your words.

“People store and use gasoline and propane “at home” all the time. Hydrogen will be no different when its turn rolls around.”

Propane, gasoline and NG offer such great advantages over hydrogen that hydrogen’s “turn” has been rolling around for at least the past fifty years and never arriving. I’m sure it will continue to do so for another fifty years.


41 posted on 08/11/2011 7:18:36 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Wonder Warthog
People store and use gasoline and propane "at home" all the time. Hydrogen will be no different when its turn rolls around.

But it will have to be different given the low heat value per volume of hydrogen.

A 5 gallon propane bottle has about 413,000 BTU heating value. To get the same energy out of hydrogen, compressed to 250 psi to use the same bottles, would take 113 of those same bottles. It just is not a practical fuel.

Source of data for caluclations: http://hydrogen.pnl.gov/cocoon/morf/hydrogen/site_specific/fuel_heating_calculator?canprint=false

51 posted on 08/12/2011 7:10:34 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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