Posted on 07/29/2011 9:33:47 AM PDT by Tulsa Ramjet
House Republicans will link passage of a balanced-budget amendment to Speaker John Boehner’s (R-Ohio) last-ditch debt-ceiling plan, which GOP lawmakers said would move the measure to passage in a high-stakes vote later on Friday.
Republican lawmakers voiced confidence the enhanced bill would pass muster with conservatives, as Rep. Mo Brooks (R-Ala.) predicted the balanced-budget amendment change would bring 10 to 20 more GOP members on board.
(Excerpt) Read more at thehill.com ...
Well, D"UH!
The 'Rats have told us as much. But a formal permanent record of their position will live forever.
The "we would have saved another "20 million jobs if the GOP had not been intransigent" argument is beyond a dead horse by now.
If it fails in the Senate or the President vetoes it,then it is no longer the House’s responsibility.
Forgetting about the vaunted 4th estate are we? No matter what happens the right will get the blame and the sheeple shall believe.
Here is a great prediction of what's happening now from 31 years ago.
Plus a few numbers that ought to make any rational person stay awake nights...
The following was written in the late 70s, and published in 1980, 31 years ago. More than a generation now.
See if any of it sounds familiar today, only worse than then. Multiply everything by 7 and if you can stay away from the vodka, you are a better man than I am.
One chink in the armor of any democracy is that, when the Plebs discover that they can vote themselves Bread & Circuses, they usually do . . . right up to the day there is neither bread nor circuses. At that point they often start lynching the senators, congressmen, bankers, tax collectors, Jews, grocers, foreigners, any minority-take your choice. For they know that they [themselves] didn’t do it. The citizen is sovereign until it comes to accepting blame for his sovereign acts then he demands a scapegoat.
...
Social Security taxes go into the general fund and are spent. If Social Security were in fact insurance (the basis on which the gimmick was sold to us by FDR’s “New Deal”), the receipts would be segregated and invested and not shown as income . . . OR a competent insurance actuary with staff would calculate the commitment and it would show in the National Public Debt.
The fact that a debt is amortized over the years doesn’t stop it from being a debt. It was an amortized mortgage that got me into this racket. The prospect of years and years of future monthly payments spoiled my sleep.
The only way the Government can go on paying Social “Security” to my generation is by taxing you young people more and more heavily. . . and each year there are more and more old people and fewer and fewer young people. It won’t help to run the printing presses faster; that causes food to rise in price, rents to go up, etc. - and people over 65 start putting pressure on Congress... and there’s an election coming up. (There’s always an election coming up.)
I use the term “Federal Public Debt” because what is usually termed the “Public Debt” is by no means our total public debt. There are also state, county, city, and special-district debts. It is difficult to get accurate figures on these public debts but the total appears to be larger than the Federal Public Debt. I can’t make even a wild guess at the Social Security commitment but our total public promises-to-pay have to exceed two trillion dollars.
How much is a trillion? Well, it means that a baby born today owes at least $4,347.83 to the Federal Government alone before his eyes open. (No wonder he yells). It means that the Zero Population Growth family (who was going to save us all-remember?) of father, mother, and 2.1 children owes $17,826 in addition to private debts (mortgage, automobile, college for 2.1 children).
Of course papa won’t pay it off; that debt will grow larger. But it will cost him $2000 a year (and rising) just to “service” his pro-rata; any taxes for which he getsanything at all-even more laws-is on top of that.
A trillion seconds is 31,688 years, 9 months, 5 days, 8 hours, 6 minutes, and 42 seconds - long enough for the precession of the equinoxes to make Vega the Pole Star, swing back again to Polaris, and go on past to Alpha Cephei. Or counting the other way it would take us to 29,708 B.C.. . . or more than 25 thousand years before Creation by Bishop Usher’s chronology for creationism.
I don’t understand a trillion dollars any better than I do a trillion seconds. I simply know that we had better stop spending money we don’t have if we want to avoid that Man on Horseback.
But I don’t think we will stop “deficit financing,” the euphemism that sounds so much better than “kiting checks.” You may have noticed that 1970 figure for public employees (not my extrapolation for 1980, but the official 1970 figures straight from theUnited States Bureau of the Census).
That figure does not include the Armed Forces. It does not include some special categories. It is easier to learn the number of slaves imported in 1769 (6,736) than it is to find out exactly how many people are on public payrolls in this country. And it is not simply difficult but impossible to determine how many people receive Federal checks for which they perform no services. (Or food stamps. Are food stamps money?) But one thing is certain: the number of people eligible to vote who do receive money from some unit of government (aid to dependent children, Supreme Court justices, not growing wheat, removing garbage, governors of states, whoever) exceeds the number eligible to vote but receiving no pay or subsidy of any sort from any unit of government.
Have you read the Federal Register lately? Have you ever read the Federal Register? Under powers delegated by Congress certain appointed officials can publish a new regulation in the Federal Register and, if Congress does not stop it, after a prescribed waiting time, that regulation has the force of law-it is law, [usually forever,] to you and to me, although a lawyer sees nuances. I have vastly oversimplified this description, but my only purpose is to point out that “administrative law” reaches into every corner of our lives, and is the major factor in the enormous and strangling invasion of the Federal Government into our private affairs.
I can’t see anything in the Constitution that permits the Congress to delegate its power to pass laws.. . but the Supreme Court says it’s okay and that makes my opinion worthless.
I’m stopping. There are endless other gloomy things to discuss-the oil shortage, the power shortage (not the same thing), pollution, population pressure, a projected change in climate that can and probably will turn the problems of population and food into sudden and extreme crisis, crime in the streets and bankrupt cities, our incredible plunge from the most respected nation on Earth to the most despised (but we are nonetheless expected to pick up the tab). Bill Gresham was right but he told only half of it: you not only don’t get rich peddling gloom; it isn’t any fun.
So now come with me- “OVER THE RAINBOW-“
Over The Rainbow is a section of the Chapter, The Happy Days Ahead from the Robert Heinlein book, Expanded Universe, which discusses, among other things, predictions made in 1950 and revisited in 1980. Heinlein got a lot wrong, but a few, like the excerpt in this thread, was (is) spot on.
I used to promote the BBA idea here and would get occasional arguments here against it. You are 100% right about the loopholes they would put in, plus it doesnt take effect for 10 years (I think) so it doesnt force them to do anything themselves..
The idea of demanding that a Democrat President/Senate pass a BBA with anti-spending conditions makes as much sense as Democrats waiting till Republicans take over the Hosue to demand that they raise taxes for them, when they (dems) wouldnt do it themselves. Did you see Pelosi try to force GWB to sign obama-care in 2007?
Hmm
How will this end
How do we end this?
We are either going to see a total collapse of society as we know it today or we are going to have to end up fighting for what we believe in.
It is painfully obvious that Americans are not going to vote the right way. Too many on the dole. Just wait until they allow all of the illegal citizens to vote by making them citizens.
Just doesn’t seem like this is going to end well. Perhaps I am just gloom and doom. I just am not seeing the answers before my eyes. Not right now, at least.
How can this end better?
House is beginning another 1 hour of debate.
Adding a BBA guarantees failure in the Senate.
If the House and the Senate each approved an amendment to the Constitution by 2/3 vote, then it goes to the States, and no Veto is possible.
But this is just a law requiring a BBA as a prerequisite to a further increase in the debt limit. Hussein could veto it, but, of course, he will never have to.
I had a nice response to the article in your link ready to go. Then I got company and had to stop. Had a blockquote and everything.
Lookit, the things this guy says are problematic with a balanced budget requirement are simply the same things that happen to all companies, individuals and governments that must balance the budget.
Mostly he says what option would we have if the budget turns out to have been woefully out of balance at the end of the fiscal year beyond the proposal?
Well what in the hell is new under the sun? All budgets go kerplooey and go with me here, the solution is NOT to AVOID a balance budget requirement but to come up with an action to be taken after the fiscal year ends and budget projections are shrewdly looked over.
If you work for a company in any capacity responsible for approving budgets you probably have to explain wild variances and plenty times, here’s a concept, YOU GET FIRED!
Taking a stand against a BB because it might be wrong is like saying don’t bother making the bed cause it’ll just get messed up again.
The article also says that there will be issues with such as wars and their impact on the budget.
Hey, you can be a Blue Blood GOP Ruling Class and put hands on hips and purse lips that daring to start somewhere, to iron it out, to make the mistakes and correct them...well we don’t want all the bother. Be sure to lisp and sound hissy when taking this childish position.
Forcing the feds to balance the budget, however wrong they may get it, however much work they must do, poor babies....will put the spending of this gubmint in front of the people out of whose pockets the funds are absconded.
You gotta start somewhere.
The guy that wrote this article does NOT want to start anywhere.
Been checking and monitoring budgets all my life. It can be done, adjustments made, allowances for unanticipated events allocated.
Saying it can’t be done is to pee upon my feet and tell me it is raining.
Cant argue with that.
Then every newspaper, magazine, and TV outlet in the land devote the entire sports coverage to what a lousy player you are, how you endangered the crowd by hitting it so hard, and how you cheated to even get there. You are nothing but a terrorist of the tennis court and you must be banned until learn to bow and curtsey to your betters.
The Boehner ammendment specifically states that monies from borrowings do NOT count as revenue.
You should maybe check it out.
Here’s the full text of the House version (the text of the Senate version is here):
Section 1. Total outlays for any fiscal year shall not exceed total receipts for that fiscal year, unless three-fifths of the whole number of each House of Congress shall provide by law for a specific excess of outlays over receipts by a rollcall vote.
So 3/5's of congress must approve any time expenditures exceed expenses.
‘Section 2. The limit on the debt of the United States held by the public shall not be increased, unless three-fifths of the whole number of each House shall provide by law for such an increase by a rollcall vote.
So 3/5's of congress must approve a debt ceiling increase.
‘Section 3. Prior to each fiscal year, the President shall transmit to the Congress a proposed budget for the United States Government for that fiscal year in which total outlays do not exceed total receipts.
Seems pretty cut and dry to me.
‘Section 4. No bill to increase revenue shall become law unless approved by a majority of the whole number of each House by a rollcall vote.
Simple majority for tax increases....pretty standard.
‘Section 5. The Congress may waive the provisions of this article for any fiscal year in which a declaration of war is in effect. The provisions of this article may be waived for any fiscal year in which the United States is engaged in military conflict which causes an imminent and serious military threat to national security and is so declared by a joint resolution, adopted by a majority of the whole number of each House, which becomes law.
So okay, wars and military conflicts are problems. It's hard to budget for a war that you can't predict will happen. 9-11, for example, would have blown a budget that year. Well why can't exceptions be made for wards? As the above is written, it's like they throw the baby out with the bath water and say in the event of a military threat, conflict....the balanced budget goes out the door. Why not just remove all costs of a war from a presented and approved balanced budget? This is how they handle this sort of thing in the business world. You'd have presidents starting wars or declaring Canada a danger just to blow the budget.
‘Section 6. The Congress shall enforce and implement this article by appropriate legislation, which may rely on estimates of outlays and receipts.
says congress will make all laws needed to make the balanced budget work. In other words they can't say they couldn't collect monies for new fly traps because no law allowed it. They can't put it in the budget if there's legal way to do it.
‘Section 7. Total receipts shall include all receipts of the United States Government except those derived from borrowing. Total outlays shall include all outlays of the United States Government except for those for repayment of debt principal.
This is where it stipulates that receipts do NOT include money from borrowing.
‘Section 8. This article shall take effect beginning with the later of the second fiscal year beginning after its ratification or the first fiscal year beginning after December 31, 2016.’.
If this is ratified as a constitutional ammendment than it shall begin as stipulated OR by 2016. You gotta start somewhere. The pubs and Tea Party types will have to keep an eyeball on this that they don't forget all about it.
The Senate version differs as follows:
■Provides that total outlays in any given fiscal year shall not exceed 18% of Gross Domestic Product for the immediately proceeding year
It is what it says. I think this is a sneaky way for the dems to keep the pubs from capping expenditures at 10% of gdp or some such.
■Passing an unbalanced budget or increasing the debt ceiling requires a two-thirds vote rather than a three-fifths vote
reducing amount required to approve some things.
■Requires that any bill that levies a new tax or raises an existing tax rate have a two-thirds vote in each chamber
The big deal is that this economy is trashed and the repercussions will be felt by those who didn’t try to sound the alarm.
Exactly. This is where I think a Constitutional Convention needs to be talked about. We have enough governors and control enough upper and lower chambers in the states that a convention called solely on two amendments, balanced budget and term limits, might have a shot at passage but anything else radical like 2nd amendment revoking will never make the 3/4 states approval now.
If there's every been a time for the Governors to sit down and spank the Feds asses by bypassing them then this might be the chance.
House is now voting on the amendment.
......... "The States need to amend the Constitution to extend the gold and silver clause in Article I section 10 to the Federal government, and a balanced budget will be the result.
And in order to get THAT to pass, you will need 2,000 loopholes and dole out 10 million earmarks to state legislators.
if the senate votes this down, then they are responsible...
the house passed what they think will save our country... voting it down will not save the country.
go tea party.
to the boiling point.
t
More Kabuki theater. Ho-hum. Really Washington, we’re so over you. Come out here to Reality Heights. You are all the laughing stock of the nation.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.