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Let’s say Boehner needs 2 more YES votes but there are 5 Tea Partiers voting NO. Suppose those 5 abstain from this vote, and the others stay the same, and now he has more YES votes than NO. Doesn’t the bill pass?

Those NO voters would have to decide if an abstention contradicted the promises they made to the voters.

I understand that they are trying to achieve real spending cuts, but that is hard to do when the enemy controls the senate and presidency. I am concerned that they will give Obama a weapon for 2012, Right now Obama owns the economy, but the GOP could share that ownership if they are not careful.

I understand that they are trying to achieve real spending cuts, but that is hard to do when the enemy controls the senate and presidency.

They didn't even try to achieve real spending cuts with the Boehner plan. In fact, there are *no* real spending cuts in Boenher's plan, just miniscule reductions in the rate of the already proposed spending increases.

Boenher's bill gives the Dems the debt ceiling increase they want. Why couldn't he at least have made the spending cuts real? And immediate? The country overwhelmingly supports spending cuts (I have yet to see a poll that contradicts this).

RE :”I understand that they are trying to achieve real spending cuts, but that is hard to do when the enemy controls the senate and presidency. I am concerned that they will give Obama a weapon for 2012, Right now Obama owns the economy, but the GOP could share that ownership if they are not careful”

I still remember Newt talking tough in 1995..... well the other day one freeper actually told me that Clinton blackmailed Newt with FBI pictures to get him to cave in on all of Clintons original budget demands after 3 weeks of shutdown and to send him the PASSED budget he originally demanded. Best story on that I have heard yet.

Boehner’s bill looks in trouble with principled conservatives ironically joining enemy Marxists to defeat it for completely different reasons.

I hear and read two contrary themes/rationales on holding out:

1) is the positive Rush type view “Holding firm with the CC+B(with the BB amendment) bill alone is a clear winner, voters will rally to Republicans side, Holding firm will get an even better outcome. Reid will cave, Obama will cave. This will be a glorious victory when Obama signs CC+B with the debt extension.”

contrary version 2 is much more pessimistic

2) “It doesn't matter what bill Obama signs into law in the end even when the House is Republican controlled, no matter how bad it is (even if it's much worse than Boehner’s watered down bill for example) . Individual members are not responsible for the final outcome or even the final Republican House vote and are only responsible for their individual votes. They need to vote ‘No’ and block anything that is not near ideal (even if that means joining all Democrats on occasion ironically) and ‘let the chips fall where they may’. I am right and that is all that matters”

3) I read that sometimes goes with #2: “ I don't care if I am re-elected.“