Replies

hocndoc: "Perhaps if you had to get a repeat pap smear -
or had the outer layer of cells removed by laser, freezing,
burning or scalpel - of the analogous organ,
you would try harder - or appreciate the net benefit.."

Thank you for the educated response, but this has NOTHING to do
with forcing an untested drug of dubious benefit on children
by Gov. Perry's Executive Order. THAT is the issue

hocndoc: "All childhood vaccines require informed consent
from the parent since minors may not consent for medical care in Texas."

This also has NOTHING to do either
with forcing an untested drug of dubious benefit on children
by the Gov. Perry's Executive Order. Also, childhood vaccines
have NOTHING to do with Gardasil either -- and you know why.

hocndoc: "Better than relative risk for cervical cancer is the
“Number Needed to Treat” (NNT) for HPV infection.
The value of any NNT is relative to the costs of the treatment,
but we consider efficacy at anything under 100 -
we just have to decide whether it’s “worth it.”
The NNT for Gardasil is about 18, meaning that 18 girls
get the shot to prevent one infection. We don’t know the incidence of
nuclear changes due to those infections, but we do know the
cost of whatever percentage there is."

Nonsense. This has NOTHING to do medicine.
THIS POV (point of view) is used by government, PerryCARE, RomneyCARE
and the drug companies to force treatment on the unwilling.
Informed consent should only have to do
with the individual considering treatment -- and no one else.

hocndoc: "Consider the cost of one to two repeat paps immediately
and then the high risk that there are still changes present that are not
yet detectable, so the girl or woman must have a pap every 3 to
6 months times 3 then each year for the rest of her life as well as the
treatment of precancerous changes that have led to that significant
drop in cervical cancer, and of the cancers themselves.
The financial cost is enormous, as are the numbers of the lost
pregnancies and premature births resulting from damage to the cervix from conization, laser-,cryo-, and electro-therapy."

THIS is disingenuous. You are using Gardasil to imply
that promiscuous women (the right group to use it) will no longer
need PAP smears.
You know that this promotes a sense of false protection.

hocndoc: "Yes - the Pap smear is solely for the purpose of
looking for cellular/nuclear changes consistent with precancerous
or cancerous cells. We use wet prep microscope slides and
other tests for other STD’s. Finding those other conditions
can invalidate the test and are reported, but that is not the
reason for the pap smear. Irritation will cause inflammation,
but not nuclear changes consistent with precancerous state."

The purpose of a Pap smear [Papanikolaou Test]
is also to detect abnormal, precancerous, or cancerous cells,
chemical, hormonal, or infectious change and etiology
from the cervix (and other areas). The latter include
Trichomonas, Candida, and Herpes.
Furthermore, there are better systems than PAP smears.
Are you using two or more levels of screening?

hocndoc: "Yes, virtually all cervical precancerous changes -
found at the pap smear or not -are secondary to HPV infection.
The percentage of clear cell cancers due to mom’s exposure to
DES is small enough to make that 99.7% statistic valid. "

Not true. There are adenocarcinoma,
squamous cell carcinoma and other tumors
(soft tissue sarcomata including an array of types, right?)
that are NOT the result of HPV.

hocndoc: "The fact that the vaccine is not 100% is not a good argument.
The flu shot has a 5% failure rate.
As to the multiple strains: yes, there are many strains of the virus,
but 16 and 18 cause 70% of precancerous/cancerous changes
and 11/14 cause about 90% of the genital warts.
All vaccinations involve informed consent forms, signed
by the parent or patient. Minors may not consent for vaccinations in Texas."

It is a good argument when the untested medication is
FORCED on children who do not need it.

About 15 of the 40 to 150 types of HPV
have been linked to cervical cancer.
Gardasil “protects” against the 4 Types that have the highest
correlation with cancer and genital warts.
Gardasil does not grant full immunity to those 4 Types of HPV.
Gardasil offers no protection against the other
strains of HPV that have been linked to cervical cancer.

Since there is no benefit for non promiscuous girls
you seem to avoid the actual equation substituting your handwaving.
The NET Benefit of a medical treatment is

NET BENEFIT = (Risk with NO treatment)*(the net benefit of the treatment) - (The risk of harm).