Posted on 07/02/2011 3:46:49 PM PDT by tflabo
Saying it won't force California customers to pay sales tax on their Internet purchases, Amazon.com is severing ties with 10,000 small businesses and individuals here who funnel shoppers to the online bazaar through their websites.
The defiant action came hours after Gov. Jerry Brown signed legislation that would have required Amazon to start collecting a 7.25% base tax on online purchases
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
Major thread drift...but I have to answer...
What is collected, by force, really doesn’t have anything to do with what is received. A promise was made..and should be upheld. If I had the cash given to this Ponzi scheme during my working life, with interest and invested..even in a bank...you my Friend would not have an ax to grind.
I sincerely regret that you are at the bottom of the pyamid. But it had to happen. Gripe at the government that squandered the funds. And from what I read..they are trying to fix the problem...sure they are.
Technically how can CA make Amazon collect the taxes? What’s the state gonna do, shut down the internet? I guess it could confiscate Amazon shipments once they crossed a border into the state. But then Amazon could counter by shipping stuff in “plain brown wrappers”.
I'm guessing the 25,000 figure is closer to the truth since a lot of things you can buy on line is either coming out of California or New Jersey because (I'm taking an educated guess here) of the ocean ports in those two states. Basically a lot of stuff coming into the country through those two states, probably a lot of ware houses in those two states, near the ocean ports.
I’ve been collecting SS for about five years. I’ve payed into it, at the maximum rate, all my working life. Just think what I could have done with that money if the government didn’t demand I pay into the system. Now they are threatening to stop it? I don’t think so.
Way to go, Jerry!
The stupidity of democrats never ceases to amaze.
Since Amazon affiliates have absolutely nothing to do with product handling, their proximity to ocean ports is entirely irrelevant.
Amazon affiliates post advertising links on their websites. They then get commissions from Amazon based on sales coming to Amazon through those websites.
“I don’t want to be perceived as anti-Amazon. I shop with them far more than I do any brick or mortor.
But if the sales tax code in Cal requires collection of sales tax on internet purchases...is this out of line? (I guess I could look it up, but I don’t have the time or inclination.)”
Amazon does not have to collect sales tax in California. They never have.
The bill just passed in California is one of those “affiliates” bills that attempts to pretend like amazon (and other online retailers) have a physical presence in the state just because they have these online advertising affiliates who have web sites that funnel traffic to amazon, when otherwise, said online retailers do not have a physical presence.
About a half dozen states, including North Carolina, Illinois and Colorado have passed similar bills, with the result that several thousand small businesses in those states were destroyed when amazon (and others) responded by dumping all affiliates in those states. The net result was a loss of state tax revenue in every case since the destroyed businesses no longer had any income on which to pay state taxes.
The California Rats know all of this, so they know that their bill will destroy thousands of California businesses and reduce state tax revenues. I guess passing the bill must simply be political grandstanding for their ignorant constituents and that the price of thousands of destroyed businesses and lost state tax revenue is worth the price.
Simple solution for Amazon and others: forego a tiny amount of revenue from affiliates to restore the status quo of no physical presence, thereby saving their customers several hundred millions of dollars.
I wish more corporations had the balls to stand up to the fascists rather than playing patty-cake with them, thinking that will save them from being eaten in the long run, because anyone who has studied the history of the last hundred years would know better.
Social Insecurity: Don’t Rely on the Government
Here is the scale of the problem - (I know Amazon is a "liberal" leaning company). I live in NH - there is not sales tax in NH. I sell new stuff on E-bay. E-bay is a company based in San Jose CA. If I someone from CA is the highest bidder on by product, and I ship it to CA, then I am liable to collect the sales tax for the State of California.
If CA deems that I do not remit the sales tax properly, than I have to defend myself in the CA court system.
The Constitution of the United States has a clause in Section 10 of Article I that states
No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States;
In the SCOTUS case Brown vs. Maryland of 1827, Justice John Marshall said that the Imports included imports from one state to another. He was following James Madison who in his Notes on the Debates of the Constitution explained that this was one of the main reasons for scrapping the Articles of Confederation for a new Constitution so the States could no longer tax article brought from other states.
This case was overturned in 1868 by Justice Miller in Woodruff v. Parham whose opinion was as devoid of logic as Dred Scott or Roe v. Wade, and has led to a complete mess regarding who can and cannot regulated interstate commerce.
Justice Thomas asked to revisit Woodruff in his dissent in CAMPS NEWFOUND/OWATONNA, INC. v. TOWN OF HARRISON ET AL. 1997.
I was reading today that in the first half of 2011, the number of reporting businesses leaving California is up to 5.6 per week. Importantly, only 1 in 5 of such businesses are required to report leaving the State. This would mean that of businesses with 100 or more employees, about 20-25 are leaving the State every week.
That’s a huge hemorrhage. To make things even worse, competing States are sending consultants to California businesses, advising them that on average, for them to leave the State could reduce their tax bill anywhere from 20-40%. That is a nearly irresistible argument, especially in a recession-depression.
Pretty sure Amazon told them they would do this.
You don’t have it quite right. This issue is a little confusing, mainly because of the amazon “affiliate” terminology which can mean two things. Amazon affiliates in California who sell through the amazon storefront already are responsible for collecting sales tax. There are also affiliates who simply refer traffic to Amazon and collect a small commission of the sale. There is no sales tax collected on the referrals, because it is Amazon, making the transaction. The change in the law is that California says because Amazon has these affiliates in California, it therefor has a presence in California, and must collect sales tax on every single transaction with a California resident, regardless of whether an affiliate is involved.
Good for amazon.
Good for Amazon. The automobile manufacturers should have done this years ago. Instead of choking cars down with useless California Emissions BS, they should have stopped selling cars in California.
It's not my fault your generation was stupid enough to believe the promises of politicians. And there's no way in Hell that my generation is going to pay off on them. We're sick of it.
Sorry, friend, but that's just the way things are.
Gripe at the government that squandered the funds
I got news for you Friend, very soon we are going to be the Government. So buckle up, because your ride is about to get very, very rough.
L
Just move out of the state.
CA Berlin wall ping!
Ok, thanks, MrShoop. I was trying to think this through again, and how a Washington company can be forced to pay taxes to California when it already does pay taxes to that state (as you say, really the affiliates collect sales tax, but the point is Calif is getting their share).
Every company in the world has affiliates with other companies, it seems unethical to pass a law saying because Amazon has a relationship with XYZ company, tax their sales in Calif....or any other state that may determine to pass that type of law! They already collect sales taxes for their home state of Washington.
I live in Oregon, buy a zillion things from Amazon, and never pay tax here. I do pay tax when I have the item shipped to a friend in Washington. And that we expect, but not additional taxes.
If Amazon did not aggressively make the move they did, my wacky governor here would look at Calif and say, hey, way to get more tax revenue (although I’m sure there are fewer affiliates in Oregon), and this could spread. It seems double-taxation to me and puts a burden on buyer, affiliate and seller because the total cost of the product goes up (and therefore sales go down).
As it is, it’s a new law and a new tax which has hopefully been rendered null by Amazon cancelling certain relationships. Let’s hope that bold stroke will keep other states from trying this idea.
Thanks for the info.
This only reiterates my fear that the younger people have no honor.
And BTW, Social Security doesn’t figure into my retirement. I hope that is the case for your Mom or Grandma. I’m sure you have made plans to care for them, haven’t you?
But of course, I’m sure you will discount the years they were forced to pay into a system that you no longer feel the need to support, even though the government squandered the funds. There was no choice in contributing to SS. We weren’t stupid, simply coerced.
Call your Congessman/Senator. And build a a mother-in-law room in your “special little world”.
And that’s the way things are.
Seriously, I hope your generation can make some headway.
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