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To: The Theophilus

I assume you are not Catholic as it is part of our religion teachings. The Protestants movement under Luther and Calvin rejected the Catholic church and the original teachings on free will.

“I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Choose life, then, that you and your descendants may live, by loving the LORD, your God, heeding his voice, and holding fast to him.” Deuteronomy 30:19-20

Not only is each individual free to choose, he is obliged to choose.

“Because I called and you refused, I extended my hand and no one took notice” Proverbs 1:24

Yes, God calls us but we can refuse. He invites us but does not compel us.

Free Will
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06259a.htm

Free Will
http://www.ourcatholicfaith.org/whycatholic/freewill.html


196 posted on 06/10/2011 4:47:27 AM PDT by WaterBoard
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To: WaterBoard
I assume you are not Catholic as it is part of our religion teachings.

You are correct, I am not RC, I am a Christian.

I agree that Rome has no problems with teachings that are fully contradictory to the Scriptures because Rome has Holy Tradition as the Bible's antithesis.

The Scriptures teach that the natural man hates God, hates righteousness, loves his Sin, doesn't seek after God, considers the Gospel as foolishness and couldn't understand the Bible prior to regeneration anyway. So if Rome says "Free Will" then Rome must deny the fallen nature of man, must say that man doesn't need the Paraclete to open his eyes, and that the natural man doesn't need a new heart to respond to the Gospel. These are not debatable elements within Christianity, being that Rome has denied them simply is further reminder that Roman Catholicism is Roman Catholicism, not Christianity.

Now that you have revealed your interpretation template and allegiances, I apologize for taking you to task on this matter.

197 posted on 06/10/2011 10:56:22 PM PDT by The Theophilus (Obama's Key to win 2012: Ban Haloperidol)
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To: WaterBoard
One last thing, you did honor the conversation by offering your evidence for Free Will, and it would be impolite to ignore the attempt.
“I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Choose life, then, that you and your descendants may live, by loving the LORD, your God, heeding his voice, and holding fast to him.” Deuteronomy 30:19-20

I don't think you really want to use this passage.

First off, is this challenge true for everyone or just for the Israelites? Given the context of this passage, it is unarguably only for the Israelites entering the Land.

Second, what the Choice? Was the Choice eternal life with God merely by recognizing Jesus Christ as each man's personal savior for all sin? The answer is clearly No. It wasn't an individual choice, it was a group choice, it was a choice between corporate blessings and cursings regarding the quality of their lives in the land of Canaan not about eternal salvation.

Third, what was the result of their choice? Clearly they began in rebellion by not even following the fundamental religious rite of circumcision as none of the males were circumcised, a sin that was remedied at the spot by Joshua to all men prior to entering the land. Even though the people lied and said that they would follow God so that they could enjoy the material and temporal benefits to obedience to the Law, within a generation they were already back in full rebellion to God and rejected His laws and commandments.

In summary, the Challenge was given to a particular nation, not to individuals, it was about obeying the law in exchange for comfort and convenience in Canann rather than dieing to self and living for Christ and the gift of eternal life in Heaven, and ultimately while agreeing to the contract they rebelled and earned the cursings while those who are saved by Jesus Christ have assurances that they will not fall. I understand that Rome has a "sin" clause such as salvation is not by Grace alone but by Grace and Works, whereas there is a performance benchmark that must be attained before God considers the Catholic good enough to be allowed into Heaven without remedial obedience lessons in Purgatory - which incidentally even if true, doesn't find an analog here in Joshua's Challenge to the Hebrews.

I guess the bottom line is - there is absolutely no comparison between Deuteronomy 30:19-20 and Election to Salvation through Jesus Christ. There is no comparison between this passage and Rome's path to salvation through the Church and her Traditions. No matter your theology, there is no comparison and thus no way to make this passage a Free Will proof text.

Even if one is obstinate and still claims, despite the challenge posted here, that the passage does support Free Will, when they could win the lottery or be shoved in ovens and their destiny is purely upon acceptance of observing religious rituals, though the obvious choice was lottery, and they said "lottery" their will to sin was greater than their "choice" of obedience and thus they earned ovens - a process that was repeated each and every time they had the opportunity to make that choice. Right up until God said "It is Finished" and did away with the Temple system in 70 AD and the resurrection of His Son.

198 posted on 06/10/2011 11:35:22 PM PDT by The Theophilus (Obama's Key to win 2012: Ban Haloperidol)
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