How to Prove that the Rossi/Focardi eCAT LENR is Real

LENR.QUMBO.com ^ | April 6, 2011 | Alan Fletcher

[Wonder Warthog]

"One thing from the write-up that does trouble me, is the statement that all fakes could not be ruled out."

Not quite what it says. It says that NO SINGLE DEMONSTRATION has ruled out all fakes. But it also says that all the demonstrations taken together DO rule out the fakes. It is still possible, but it would involve multiple different "faking" mechanisms for each demo, and is much less likely.

[Wonder Warthog]

"Given its alleged simplicity, it should be patented and marketed already."

Have you ever applied for/gotten a patent?? It's not quite as cut and dried as you seem to think. And we don't know the time frame in which Rossi actually found the workable catalyst, so such a statement is not called for.

[Liberty1970]

They have their first patent (granted in Italy in April), but the one dealing with the catalyst is still pending.

[Kevmo]

Have you read where Rossi is falling behind or indicating he won’t get the plant running this year?
***Yes I have, but I cannot find it.

All the indications are that he will not have “units commercially available by November”. I’ll keep looking for the reference.

Here’s one place where the Novemer claim comes out:

http://www.prwatch.org/news/2011/04/10661/media-ignores-energy-breakthrough-worry-free-nuclear-power

Soon to be in Commercial Production
... He plans to open a one-megawatt heating plant in Athens, Greece this coming October, and plans to make his units commercially available in November 2011.

[Windflier]

Not quite what it says. It says that NO SINGLE DEMONSTRATION has ruled out all fakes. But it also says that all the demonstrations taken together DO rule out the fakes.

Thanks for the clarification, WW. Much appreciated.

[tet68]

catalaxed with a minx.

Reminds me of the time I got locked in a van
with Mary-jo Gilhooly...

[MHGinTN]

Braggart

[count-your-change]

Isn’t she the girl that had such an over bite that she could brush her teeth with her mouth closed? But didn’t.

[editor-surveyor]

BFL

[free_life]

Please add me to you ping list.

[citizen]

Yes, I see. Well, a 6 or 12 month delay is neither unusual nor untimately significant if he eventually gets his unit providing the energy used in producing 1MW of electricity.

If he had investors or shareholders breathing down his neck it could be a different matter.

[aNYCguy]

We’ll all know for certain this fall. Either it works, or Rossi becomes the new Camping.

No, that's not how these scams work. It's always "just one more test," and "just one more little technical problem to overcome." Free energy companies like Blacklight Power and Steorn have been raking in investment dollars for years, pushing back over and over the date they'll solve all the world's energy problems.

So maybe you'll know for certain this fall that Rossi's full of it when he doesn't deliver. Hell, I know already. But I guarantee you he'll hold on to followers here and elsewhere.

[ought2]

This is real, all right. The method of proving, as presented in the OP, is not appropriate to decerning this.

This is not a problem in physics (my passion) nor engineering (my skill), but one of astute evaluation of the personalities involved.

[Kevmo]

The author is a freeper

[Kevmo]

Hydrogen Peroxide
H2O2
should be covered.

Here’s a recent thread

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2790674/posts?page=36#36

To: Johnny B.
How do we know that it was water he was pouring down the drain. There are other possibilities. For example, Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) reacts with nickel (among other metals) to produce heat, steam and Oxygen (O2).
***Already covered

How to Prove that the Rossi/Focardi eCAT LENR is Real (or fake)
LENR.QUMBO.com ^ | April 6, 2011 | Alan Fletcher
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 7:52:15 PM by Kevmo
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2730401/posts

27 posted on Monday, October 10, 2011 9:26:53 PM by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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To: Kevmo
***Already covered
Actually, it’s not. I went through that entire thread, and there’s no mention of Hydrogen Peroxide, which seems kind of strange since it does include many less likely gimmicks.

As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, a 90% Hydrogen Peroxide solution with a metal catalyst is so energetic that it is used to power the flying jetpack. It would require a much lower concentration to produce the amount of heat seen in the e-cat. 35% concentrations of Hydrogen Peroxide is a commonly available for the food industry (and on Amazon.com).

Hydrogen Peroxide is transparent, colorless, odorless and mixes readily with water. If the water being pumped into the e-cat did contain a sufficient amount of Peroxide, it would produce the same heat and steam as the e-cat does produce.

I’m not saying that this is how the e-cat actually works, but I haven’t seen anything to suggest it should be ruled out. A simple, well-known chemical reaction is far easier to accept than a whole new physics which contradicts everything we think we know about nuclear reactions.

The fact that they throw away the water coming out of the device without doing any testing of it is very suspicious, especially since the document at the top of this very thread describes how it is carrying away a significant amount of heat with it, which is exactly what he’s claiming to be interested in testing!

35 posted on Monday, October 10, 2011 10:28:29 PM by Johnny B.
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[Kevmo]

73 posted on Friday, July 13, 2012 10:39:12 AM by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It’s A Socon Site.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot; AlanFletcher
Thanks for finally doing your homework. Why does a freeper have to ridicule you so many times just to get you to do your homework?

The last ping on that thread was from me asking Alan Fletcher to cover H202. He never responded.

2H2O2 —> 2H2O + O2 deltaHrxn 98kJ/mol
***That would mean that there’s no H202 on the output water. So how is testing the output going to reveal this as a fake? You would test the input water, to find the 6 grams per liter of solution, which I think was done by observers.

Now tell me again about 1000 times more energy than any known chemical reaction.
***It was observed to be water at the input, that’s how. Rossi could be a fake, that’s why that thread was posted in the first place. Naturally, if you want to pursue this path of calling him a fake using this H202 trickery, you would need to post how Rossi is able to get 600degreesC for 45 days like he’s been claiming lately. There are other researchers who get similar results and there’s no fakery involved; it’s water in and water out, with a delta temp that cannot be accounted for with chemical reactions of only water.

74 posted on Friday, July 13, 2012 10:41:23 AM by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It’s A Socon Site.)
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