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To: Seizethecarp; Responsibility2nd; Red Steel; rxsid; LucyT
You take every opportunity to use the word birther as an epithet, usually preceded by “stupid” or “ignorant” or "uninformed."

No, I don't.

Your stalking of birthers and mocking of these FReepers who are constitutionalists and who object to the conspiracy to defend Obama’s lack of transparency is an Alinski and trolling tactic.

I don't stalk any FReeper or troll any threads. I comment on birther threads for two reasons. First, the subject interests me. Second, I don't want to see FR's reputation ruined by delusional theories and conspiracies, however "well-intentioned" those theories are. Somebody has to be a voice of reason because the birther group-think gets pretty thick around here at times.

You correctly point out factual error that some newbies make as they explore birther claims, but you then smear all birther constitutionalists using birther as an epithet.

It isn't just newbies. I've seen FReepers from '98/'99 make the same mistakes. That misinformation must be corrected to protect the integrity of FR and all conservatives.

I am regularly offended by your derisive name-calling (birther as an epithet) posts which lump me in with newbies who claim that an American couldn't go to Pakistan in 1981, or other well-intended, but uninformed mistakes.

I don't use the term birther as an epithet. It's just a name for the group that stuck. I used to be one, so I'll continue to use the term until JR or the mods forbid it.

Half of you are offended and half of you send me private freepmails thanking me for providing some sanity and logic on the eligibility threads and for pointing them to specific evidence that refutes demonstrably false claims. Sorry, I can't please all of you.

You, youself, BuckeyTexan, are a type of birther which is a Leo Donofrio two-citizen NBC birther, but you have chosen to go on a campaign to attack FReepers who also believe that it also matters where Obama was born (jus soli) and that Obama's sustained withholding of his HI BC was in itself evidence that he had something to hide.

Correct, I don't believe Obama is an NBC because he doesn't have two citizen parents. The difference between you and me is that I'll accept a SCOTUS ruling that says otherwise. I won't bend the law for an agenda. And ... I know a losing issue when I see it.

Unlike birthers, I don't launch personal attacks against those who disagree with me on this subject. I don't attack FReepers. I dispute points of logic. And I regularly add caveats to my posts to indicate that not all birthers are the same.

Yep, you got the LFBC thanks to The Donald. What good did it do you? It didn't resolve anything and most of you think it's a forgery.

322 posted on 05/16/2011 2:10:54 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan (There are those that break and bend. I'm the other kind. *4192*)
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To: BuckeyeTexan
Precicely.......

It is not a matter of if the LFBC or “Whatever” is a forgery or not. It issue is, to the bulk of the American public, it simply does not matter and it never will.

We have to beat Obama at the polls. That is the only way this can be corrected.

326 posted on 05/16/2011 2:18:12 PM PDT by PSYCHO-FREEP (Always Remember You're Unique.......(Just Like everyone Else.))
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To: BuckeyeTexan
Excellent post. I agree 100% with everything you said other than that I think there are only naturalized and natural born citizens in the USA - and have had that opinion for a long time, and I wasn't going to change it just because of 0bama. I too would like clarification on the issue.

To me there were two thrusts of “not qualified” movement I supported -

1) Can we GET a ruling on exactly what a NBC is? I would LOVE to be shown to be wrong by the SCOTUS and that there is some third category of citizen that is neither natural born or naturalized.

2) Can we have the State of birth DOH send over a COLB directly to the ballot issuing State? Numerous legislative efforts towards this got drowned in “Long form madness” (conflicting with the Full Faith and Credit Clause) - but it is a worthwhile law - and hard to believe that such a mechanism wasn't in place previously.

I knew that asking “Where is the Birth Certificate?” was a one way ticket to nowhere - and I predicted it would blow up in some faces.

I knew that anyone saying “Just release the Long Form and this ALL GOES AWAY!” was either delusional or disingenuous as there was no way this issue was going to go away: it would be said to be a fraud - and the argument would move on to the NBC requirement.

Glad I was shown to be right on that now instead of in October!

Thanks for the good work!

331 posted on 05/16/2011 2:22:21 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: BuckeyeTexan
Correct, I don't believe Obama is an NBC because he doesn't have two citizen parents.

BINGO!

It didn't resolve anything and most of you think know it's a forgery.

That's because it is and anyone who believe's it is real is either “stupid” or “ignorant” or "uninformed." and should stop drinking his kool-aid.
339 posted on 05/16/2011 2:33:33 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: BuckeyeTexan; Responsibility2nd; Red Steel; LucyT; rxsid
“Unlike birthers, I don't launch personal attacks against those who disagree with me on this subject. I don't attack FReepers.”

There you go again. This is yet another smear by you against “birthers,” painted with a broad brush against all bithers stating that birthers (as a class) “launch personal attacks against those who disagree with me.”

Birthers are FReepers, yet you have just smeared FReeper birthers yet again with this particular attack formulation which you favor. Me pointing out your smear of birthers is not an ad hominem attack on you by me, but a factual assertion based on what you said, which I quoted.

Yes, some birthers have engaged in ad hominem attacks against specific individuals and have also inappropriate broad-brush attacks, just like your own, against “anti-birthers” but two wrongs don't make a right.

I try my best to avoid both ad hominem and broad brush smears.

363 posted on 05/16/2011 3:29:42 PM PDT by Seizethecarp
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To: BuckeyeTexan; Responsibility2nd; Red Steel; LucyT; little jeremiah; rxsid; melancholy; STARWISE; ...
“I don't stalk any FReeper or troll any threads. I comment on birther threads for two reasons. First, the subject interests me. Second, I don't want to see FR’s reputation ruined by delusional theories and conspiracies, however ‘well-intentioned’ those theories are. Somebody has to be a voice of reason because the birther group-think gets pretty thick around here at times.”

You appear to me to have just perfectly defined yourself as a “concern troll”!

Once again, you have smeared birthers broadbrush by calling them "delusional" making the name "birther" a pejorative by the equation.

I will be the first to stipulate that some birthers are delusional just like some portion in any human group are delusional and prone to embrace illogical or demonstrably false claims. But that does not justify the ad hominem broadbrush smear of calling all birthers delusional and in need of being rescued by you personally. Talk about describing delusional mania!

When I or most FReepers observe that a FReeper, birther or not, has stated as a fact something that appears to have been debunked, it is polite and customary to provide links which refute the incorrect claim. It is a smear to declare that a class of persons (birthers) are all delusional or otherwise deficient based on the behavior of one ill-informed, or even numerous FReepers who happen to repeat a debunked birther claim.

382 posted on 05/16/2011 4:33:21 PM PDT by Seizethecarp
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