Posted on 04/28/2011 5:55:29 AM PDT by ZGuy
I agree the fact that most of the Popes were immoral sexuality is certainly at least as provable
+++++Again, do you know the difference between historical fact and theological truth? ++++Yes look at some historical FACTS
Along with other complaints, the activities of the popes between 1458 to 1565 helped encourage the Protestant Reformation.
Pope Sergius III (904–911) was supposedly the father of Pope John XI by Marozia, according to Liutprand of Cremona in his Antapodosis,[25] as well as the Liber Pontificalis.[26] However it must be noted that this is disputed by another early source, the annalist Flodoard (c. 894-966),
John XI was brother of Alberic II, the latter being the offspring of Marozia and her husband Alberic I. Hence John too may have been the son of Marozia and Alberic I. Bertrand Fauvarque underlines that the contemporary sources backing up this parenthood are dubious, Liutprand being “prone to exaggeration” while other mentions of this fatherhood appear in satires written by supporters of late Pope Formosus.[27]
Pope John X (914–928) had romantic affairs with both Theodora and her daughter Marozia, according to Liutprand of Cremona in his Antapodosis:[28] “The first of the popes to be created by a woman and now destroyed by her daughter”. (See also Saeculum obscurum)
Pope John XII (955–963) (deposed by Conclave) was said to have turned the Basilica di San Giovanni in Laterano into a brothel and was accused of adultery, fornication, and incest (Source: Patrologia Latina).[29] The monk chronicler Benedict of Soracte noted in his volume XXXVII that he “liked to have a collection of women”.
According to Liutprand of Cremona in his Antapodosis,[25] “they testified about his adultery, which they did not see with their own eyes, but nonetheless knew with certainty: he had fornicated with the widow of Rainier, with Stephana his father’s concubine, with the widow Anna, and with his own niece, and he made the sacred palace into a whorehouse.”
According to The Oxford Dictionary of Popes, John XII was “a Christian Caligula whose crimes were rendered particularly horrific by the office he held”.[30] He was killed by a jealous husband while in the act of committing adultery with the man’s wife.[31][32][33][34] (See also Saeculum obscurum)
Pope Benedict IX (1032–1044, again in 1045 and finally 1047–1048) was said to have conducted a very dissolute life during his papacy.[35] He was accused by Bishop Benno of Piacenza of “many vile adulteries and murders.”[36][37] Pope Victor III referred in his third book of Dialogues to “his rapes, murders and other unspeakable acts. His life as a Pope so vile, so foul, so execrable, that I shudder to think of it.”[38]
It prompted St. Peter Damian to write an extended treatise against sex in general, and homosexuality in particular. In his Liber Gomorrhianus, St. Peter Damian recorded that Benedict “feasted on immorality” and that he was “a demon from hell in the disguise of a priest”, accusing Benedict IX of routine sodomy and bestiality and sponsoring orgies.[39]
In May 1045, Benedict IX resigned his office to pursue marriage, selling his office for 1,500 pounds of gold to his godfather, the pious priest John Gratian, who named himself Pope Gregory VI.[40]
Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503) had a notably long affair with Vannozza dei Cattanei before his papacy, by whom he had his famous illegitimate children Cesare and Lucrezia
. A later mistress, Giulia Farnese, was the sister of Alessandro Farnese, who later became Pope Paul III. Alexander fathered a total of at least seven, and possibly as many as ten illegitimate children.[41] (See also Banquet of Chestnuts)
[
Popes that had male lovers
Pope Paul II (1464–1471) was alleged to have died of a heart attack while in a sexual act with a page.[42]
Pope Sixtus IV (1471–1484) was alleged to have awarded gifts and benefices to court favorites in return for sexual favors. Giovanni Sclafenato was created a cardinal by Sixtus IV for “ingenuousness, loyalty,...and his other gifts of soul and body”,[43] according to the papal epitaph on his tomb.[44] Such claims were recorded by Stefano Infessura, in his Diarium urbis Romae.
Pope Leo X (1513–1521) was alleged to have had a particular infatuation for Marcantonio Flaminio.[45]
Pope Julius III (1550–1555) was alleged to have had a long affair with Innocenzo Ciocchi del Monte. The Venetian ambassador at that time reported that Innocenzo shared the pope’s bedroom and bed.[46]
According to The Oxford Dictionary of Popes, “naturally indolent, he devoted himself to pleasurable pursuits with occasional bouts of more serious activity”.[30]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sexually_active_popes#Sexually_active_during_their_pontificate
People in a glass Vatican had best not throw stones
[
The youngest son of Libyan leader Moammar Gaddafi was killed in a NATO airstrike on his home Saturday evening, along with three of Gaddafi’s grandchildren, the Libyan government announced Sunday.
“The house of Mr. Saif al-Arab Moammar Gaddafi . . . who is the youngest of the leader’s children, was attacked tonight with full power,” government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim said at a news conference. “The leader and his wife were there in the house with other friends and relatives.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/gaddafi_calls_for_cease_fire_as_nato_strikes_tripoli/2011/04/30/AF1jZsNF_story.html?wprss=rss_homepage “The attack resulted in the martyrdom of Mr. Saif al-Arab Moammar Gaddafi, 29 years old, and three of the leader’s grandchildren,” Ibrahim said. “The leader himself is in good health. He wasn’t harmed; his wife also is in good health.”
There sure are far more immoral popes than *leaders* of the Reformation.
And the weight of evidence of their immorality is far greater than that of Luther or Calvin.
That facts are not going to stop some folks from spreading lies about Luther and Calvin allegedly engaging in immoral acts.
While the preponderance of evidence against the Catholic priests and church is far more substantial, especially when they admit to it.
I still find it interesting and hypocritical that the very things they condemn most in Calvin and Luther (by accusation only) they dismiss when evidenced in the lives of Catholic clergy.
There’s a thread on that I believe.
Payback time I guess.
Rome can not deal with exposure of their doctrines of men ..so they try to discredit the messengers ...
You know their fear and anger only shines the light back on them..
Again, which "Rome" are you referring to? (And the "messengers" did a pretty good job of discrediting themselves without any help from the Church)
Again, which "Rome" are you referring to? (And the "messengers" did a pretty good job of discrediting themselves without any help from the Church)
And sends them all to the Baltimore-Washington and Philadelphia Conferences, where they will be promoted to Bishops. Nine out of my last ten UMC pastors were either gay or overt gay-sympathizers, and NOT as in "welcome and repent." I left the UMC after five generations because I did not want to place my son into jeopardy.
Thanks Westbrook, though, I asked the question to metmom and Hoss, though they don't answer it for some reason -- strange, when as you pointed out, this is basic Christian doctrine, right?
The reason I asked Met and Hoss this is because once when one asked them which church they belonged to, it was refused as a "personal question" -- strange, considering this is a religion forum
I had asked others too, and Christians such as yourself, whichever be their denomination, have no problem in saying they believe in the 8 points (they are, as you point out, basic Christian doctrine). The problem is that we do have a few leftists (like Hankkerchief) who have posed as Christians and just aim to get Christians to fight. Hankkerchief finally admitted to being a communist, but after he had done a lot for the left's aim of getting Christians fighting with each other
Just to repeat -- as you correctly point out, the 8 points are basic Christian doctrine
Tell us, hoss, metmom, what does your group believe in?
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From dictionary.com Gnostic: ( initial capital letter ) a member of any of certain sects among the early Christians who claimed to have superior knowledge of spiritual matters, and explained the world as created by powers or agencies arising as emanations from the Godhead.
Now, isn't that what we know is the belief system of Rn, Gamecock and Dr. E's group?
This little anti-Christian group they belong to thinks that there are specific esoteric information that only they have. The problem is that their group with it's Brahminical beliefs has left Christianity as a whole and now stands by to taunt Christians (Pentecostals, Lutherans, etc. etc -- see my profile for their doctrines).
From dictionary.com Gnostic: ( initial capital letter ) a member of any of certain sects among the early Christians who claimed to have superior knowledge of spiritual matters, and explained the world as created by powers or agencies arising as emanations from the Godhead.
Typical doctrine of your group, eh RnMomof7
So, if "some didn't have the gnosis", then why are you and the rest of the brahmins here talking so much?
The problem of your sect's beliefs is that if there is no point to anything as it is all pre-ordained and all are just puppets, then all that your group does by telling Pentecostals, Methodists, etc. everyone who is not part of your group's 10,000 adults and pederasts is just rubbing their noses in the mud. So, if "some are not given the gnosis", then all that your group is doing is positively evil sneering
And, how is the number of pederast pastors and elders handled in your group?
and bluntly, all us Christians who don't belong to your denomination should be joining with YOU, the conservatives in your denomination. This fight by the homosexual front is not just the ECUSA, just the .. it is against all of us Christians.
What I realised is that it is short-sighted of us Christians to just (say in this case) laugh and make fun of the UMC and say "all UMC folks are ....". This just means that we throw one denominations to the anti-Christian wolves. And then these wolves will attack another denomination and another.
It's not good to say "oh, so that denomination will go bad, we'll join something else" -- we leave behind good people in these denominations.
I as a Christian cannot take perverse joy in the UMC being attacked by pinkos -- I am praying for them and if and when I am back state-side, I would be honored to stand by them in this fight.
Remember guys -- this pinko attack is against all us Christians, let's not dismiss this as just a local/denominational problem
Note -- the Trinitarian God. Do you as a Unitarian (your tag says "Biblical Unitarian") believe in this Trinitarian concept? God as a Triune God: Father-Son-Holy Spirit?
Thank you for elaborating your beliefs. Question -- when you say "subordinate" -- can you clarify what you believe this to mean? That Jesus Christ is a subordinate god or supernatural being? Or something else?
To be fair to OR, he is not, as far as I know a Mormon, but a Unitarian. He has just stated that he sees Jesus as subordinate to God the Father
Interesting — do you refer to the King James Version? Or which version of the Bible?
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