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To: rockrr
rockrr's constitution 101

States have an expressed right to secession even though it is not enumerated.
Right, because the constitution enumerates states rights not the federal governments. How twisted is that excuse for logic?

Secession can be invoked at any time and for any reason
Sure, put more words in other people's mouths to build up your case. Prudence requires declaring your reasons for such as action as Jefferson did and the states each did before secession. But I guess that right of self-determination in the face of tyranny died once it was used successfully in the 18th century and they built a new union prohibiting it.

even though it was instigated, initiated, and escalated by the south.
Just sad, but I'm enjoying the fact you're putting this all down for everyone to see.

although the only specific right they expressed any interest in protecting was the right to own other human beings
Wasn't the only one, but unfortunately through your rosey lenses you forget that it was in fact legal at the time, and a law not delegated to federal juridistiction, thereby being a "state" right. you're also forgetting secession of course, since that's why lincoln raised the troops. and equal taxation, representation, etc. but stick with the "only" story...works well for you.

they attempted to intimidate every border state and seize power in every territory of the southwest, west, and northwest.
do tell. by "seizing power" you mean not allowing the federal government to usurp rights retained by the states, exclude those rights from new states, and permanently force the balance of power to the north? if that's the south "seizing power" then sure, i guess so.

“First to shoot” means aggressor
and the child returns his fingers to his years, closes his eye and shouts 'i can't hear you'. keep ignoring the armistices lincoln violated so make sure your "aggressor" theory holds water.

EP - uhh, no comment. pretty sure you're making stuff up now.

R.E.L. - yeah, traitor. just ask DDE (that's eisenhower for the simple)

Lincoln - uh, when tyrants gain control, rarely do they then face legal proceedings against them...since they have control. but especially so after they're dead.

resort to secession even though there has never been a court ruling that confirmed any such right
Nor would there need to be since they never delegated the right to anyone else, and all such rights were reserved to them. perhaps you need to pick up an ESL class or two before you get out of school to help you understand the law?

even though the Supreme Court has ruled to the contrary
wait, didn't you just finish saying they never ruled on...oh, i get it, you mean after the war with a packed court. got it now.

Stupid men will ask absurd questions like “Shall government be bound by law, or by morality?” when they demonstrably do not respect the answer.
Founders were stupid - check. They asked the same question, and chose rule of law. What "answer" is it they didn't respect?

I look upon such men and shake my head. It must be terribly lonely to hate ones own country as these men do. To regard oneself as a prisoner in their own nation and feel the need to deny ones own history.
You won't find anyone "hating" their country here, but why not fish strong with another strawman. We all love the principles the country was founded upon and the men who've defended them. we don't care for those who killed hundreds of thousands to subvert them, yet get praised as heroes. But thanks for clearing everything up for us.
933 posted on 05/03/2011 4:41:16 AM PDT by phi11yguy19
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To: phi11yguy19
Prudence requires declaring your reasons for such as action as Jefferson did and the states each did before secession.

So what does it say that only four rebelling states actually issued a document laying out the reasons for their acts of secession?

942 posted on 05/03/2011 9:25:10 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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