Posted on 04/23/2011 4:26:06 PM PDT by TommyDale
That is some source you have there. I notice at the bottom is says “file under false.” Apparently you think one of the most important documents in a person’s life can be filled out with arbitrary information completely ignoring official guidelines set forth for those documents.
Not only is it “filed under false” the source is factcheck.org. The sub-organization of the Annenberg Foundation where 0bama and Bill Ayers worked together and have common and separate affiliations with. Why don’t you just use Snopes? LMAO
You want to disregard the evidence, for which you asked, because I posted it?
What I think is irrelevant. A representative of the Hawaii DoH said that the parents’ race is supplied by the parents. How do you explain “American” being listed as a father’s race on a 1973 Hawaiian COLB?
Hawaii disregarded its own guidelines when it used “caucasian” instead of “white.” So, they’re not really very consistent when it comes to following “official guidelines.”
Kenya is in Africa.
In any case, it is neither here nor there. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether Barack Obama is eligible.
You set great store by the Advertiser, I see. My experience with newspaper coverage is just the opposite. Every newspaper story I've seen about something I had first knowledge of has been inaccurate in some way. In fact, the more I know about a story, the more inadequate the printed coverage seems.
The only reason I cited the story (which I didn't read — I can't be bothered to decipher pictures of text sized for dial-up connections) was to support the fact that BHO, Sr. created a minor sensation in 1961 Honolulu by his mere presence.
This is after Obama was born, so it doesn't specifically reflect how Barak Sr. would have thought of himself racially, especially when the baby was born.
How would knocking up a white floozy affect how he thought of himself racially?
It's clear he thought of himself as an up and coming hotshot in the soon-to-be independent Kenya. That's why he returned to Kenya after his studies: he wanted to be a big fish in a little pond (Kenya), not a little fish in a big pond (the United States).
The story said he lived in St. Louis Heights, which is not the address in the birth announcements.
It's not clear they ever lived at the address in the birth announcements. The property was owned by a UH faculty member. There is a cottage in the backyard. That's probably where they intended to raise little Barry together. However, around the time of Barry's birth, his parents' relationship fell apart for reasons unknown, and she took off for Seattle with little Barry, leaving him to continue on to his degree at UH.
And not one nation called Africa. So, it has to refer to race.
How many white people have you seen being called African-Americans?
I'm not trying to discredit your theory by any means. I'm just saying that it's well worth looking into to be sure that was not the term used back in 1961 in Hawaii.
In the United States they were commonly called "negro". But Hawaii had just become a state before Obama was born and they may have been carrying over old cultural terms.
Your theory may be correct. But it should be confirmed that they were called "black" or something on the documents.
Actually, I have an account at ancestry.com which I have not used in months so when you asked me to find a document I was going to give it a try. Then I got off track and searched Obama: Hawaii. I found lots of stuff.
I never really went to this site looking for anything on Obama knowing that surely many people already have combed through it.
I found this if any of the names or info may help:
Obama’s grandmother dies two days before election
By HERBERT A. SAMPLE
Associated Press Writer
Barack Obama’s grandmother, whose personality and bearing shaped much of the life of the Democratic presidential contender, has died, Obama announced Monday, one day before the election. Madelyn Payne Dunham was 86.
Obama announced the news from the campaign trail in Charlotte, N.C. The joint statement with his sister Maya Soetoro-Ng said Dunham died peacefully late Sunday night after a battle with cancer.
They said: “She was the cornerstone of our family, and a woman of extraordinary accomplishment, strength, and humility. She was the person who encouraged and allowed us to take chances.”
Obama learned of her death Monday morning while he was campaigning in Jacksonville, Fla. He planned to go ahead with campaign appearances. The family said a private ceremony would be held later.
Republican John McCain issued condolences to his opponent. “Our thoughts and prayers go out to them as they remember and celebrate the life of someone who had such a profound impact in their lives,” the statement by John and Cindy McCain said.
Last month, Obama took a break from campaigning and flew to Hawaii to be with Dunham as her health declined.
Obama said the decision to go to Hawaii was easy to make, telling CBS that he “got there too late” when his mother died of ovarian cancer in 1995 at 53, and wanted to make sure “that I don’t make the same mistake twice.”
Outside the apartment building where Dunham died, reporters and TV cameras lined the sidewalk as two police officers were posted near the elevator. Signs hanging in the apartment lobby warned the public to keep out.
Longtime family friend Georgia McCauley visited the 10th-floor apartment where Obama had lived with his grandparent.
“So many of us were hoping and praying that his grandmother would have the opportunity to witness her grandson become our next president,” said state Rep. Marcus Oshiro, an Obama supporter. “What a bittersweet victory it will be for him. Wow.”
The Kansas-born Dunham and her husband, Stanley, raised their grandson for several years so he could attend school in Honolulu while their daughter and her second husband lived overseas. Her influence on Obama’s manner and the way he viewed the world was substantial, the candidate himself told millions watching him accept his party’s nomination in Denver in August.
“She’s the one who taught me about hard work,” he said. “She’s the one who put off buying a new car or a new dress for herself so that I could have a better life. She poured everything she had into me.”
Obama’s nickname for his grandmother was “Toot,” a version of the Hawaiian word for grandmother, tutu. Many of his speeches describe her working on a bomber assembly line during World War II.
Madelyn and Stanley Dunham married in 1940, a few weeks before she graduated from high school. Their daughter, Stanley Ann, was born in 1942. After several moves to and from California, Texas, Washington and Kansas, Stanley Dunham’s job landed the family in Hawaii.
It was there that Stanley Ann later met and fell in love with Obama’s father, a Kenyan named Barack Hussein Obama Sr. They had met in Russian class at the University of Hawaii. Their son was born in August 1961, but the marriage didn’t last long. She later married an Indonesian, Lolo Soetoro, another university student she met in Hawaii.
Obama moved to Indonesia with his mother and stepfather at age 6. But in 1971, her mother sent him back to Hawaii to live with her parents. He stayed with the Dunhams until he graduated from high school in 1979.
In his autobiography, Obama wrote fondly of playing basketball on a court below his grandparents’ 10th-floor Honolulu apartment, and looking up to see his grandmother watching.
It was the same apartment Obama visited on annual holiday trips to Hawaii, a weeklong vacation from his campaign in August, and his pre-election visit in October. Family members said his grandmother could not travel because of her health.
Madelyn Dunham, who took university classes but to her chagrin never earned a degree, nonetheless rose from a secretarial job at the Bank of Hawaii to become one of the state’s first female bank vice presidents.
“Every morning, she woke up at 5 a.m. and changed from the frowsy muumuus she wore around the apartment into a tailored suit and high-heeled pumps,” Obama wrote.
After her health took a turn for the worse, her brother said on Oct. 21 that she had already lived long enough to see her “Barry” achieve what she’d wanted for him.
“I think she thinks she was important in raising a fine young man,” Charles Payne, 83, said in a brief telephone interview from his Chicago home. “I doubt if it would occur to her that he would go this far this fast. But she’s enjoyed watching it.”
Stanley Dunham died in 1992, while Obama’s mother died in 1995. His father is also deceased.
When Obama was young, he and his grandmother toured the United States by Greyhound bus, stopping at the Grand Canyon, Yellowstone Park, Disneyland and Chicago, where Obama would years later settle.
It was an incident during his teenage years that became one of Obama’s most vivid memories of Toot. She had been aggressively panhandled by a man and she wanted her husband to take her to work. When Obama asked why, his grandfather said Madelyn Dunham was bothered because the panhandler was black.
The words hit the biracial Obama “like a fist in my stomach,” he wrote later. He was sure his grandparents loved him deeply. “And yet,” he added, “I knew that men who might easily have been my brothers could still inspire their rawest fears.”
Obama referred to the incident again when he addressed race in a speech in March during a controversy over his former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. “I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother,” he said.
Dunham was “a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world but who once confessed her fear of black men who passed her on the street.”
Still, much of who Obama is comes from his grandmother, said his half sister.
“From our grandmother, he gets his pragmatism, his levelheadedness, his ability to stay centered in the eye of the story,” she told The Associated Press. “His sensible, no-nonsense (side) is inherited from her.”
Madelyn Lee Payne was born to Rolla and Leona Payne in October, 1922, in Peru, Kan., but lived much of her childhood in nearby Augusta.
She was the oldest of four children, and she loved to read everything from James Hilton’s “Lost Horizon” to Agatha Christie’s “The Murder of Roger Ackroyd.”
Dunham and her husband were “vicious” bridge players, according to her brother Jack. After retirement, the two of them would take island cruises and do little but play bridge and a more difficult version called duplicate bridge.
I don’t care if the source is the NYT. It’s either accurate or it isn’t. It’s not an editorial; it’s a presentation of facts. The evidence supplied by the website can either be verified or it can’t.
You asked for evidence. I’ve shown you evidence of another Hawaiian COLB where the father’s race is listed as a continent rather than an actual race. I’ve shown you evidence that Hawaii didn’t follow its own official guidelines for identifying race where the parents are concerned. What you do with that evidence is your choice.
Official? Standards? You don't say!
If I'm an Hawaiian state official, why would I care about mainland standards? I would classify the races in accordance with Hawaiian, not haole, practice!
Duly noted. holden trusts Democrat administrations over Republican administrations.
That has been proven false.
The Hawaii Department of Health receives about a dozen e-mail inquiries a day about Obama's birth certificate, spokesman Okubo said."I guess the big issue that's being raised is the lack of an embossed seal and a signature," Okubo said, pointing out that in Hawaii, both those things are on the back of the document. "Because they scanned the front … you wouldn't see those things." (we know that is false from .jpegs posted on this thread)
Okubo says she got a copy of her own birth certificate last year and it is identical to the Obama one we received.
And about the copy we e-mailed her for verification? "When we looked at that image you guys sent us, our registrar, he thought he could see pieces of the embossed image through it."
Still, she acknowledges: "I don't know that it's possible for us to even say beyond a doubt what the image on the site represents."
The last statement tells the tale. They haven't and can't verify the COLB.
Not at all. I disregard it because it says "file under false" and comes from a totally disreputable source. Any reasonable person would reject it.
I don't follow your logic. If it was a nation that would be nationality since it's a continent it must logically refer to the continent of origin. How you infer a reference to race is unfathomable. Absurd really with so many races living on the continent of Africa.
In the United States they were commonly called "negro". But Hawaii had just become a state before Obama was born and they may have been carrying over old cultural terms.
What Hawaiian cultural terms would lend themselves to using the word "African" for race? Negro or negroid were common terms the world over for centuries.
Only in your opinion are they facts. The source either has credibility or it doesn't. In this case it definitely does not.
No, a “reasonable” person would examine the actual evidence presented and then come to a conclusion about that evidence, but then birthers aren’t really known for being “reasonable.” So I didn’t expect you to use reason, much less some logic. I expected exactly what I got.
For the same reason any state would or would not. What a ridiculous suggestion!
But remember that Japanese was also used on Hawaiian long form BCs at the time. I’ve seen them. Japanese is not a race either. Not sure that the fact that African was listed as a race proves much.
LMAO You really think you can pass off obviously incredulous sources don’t you?
F*** their credibility. The 1973 Hawaiian COLB exists or it doesn’t. The Hawaii DoH representative’s statement can be verified or it can’t. It really is that simple.
Yeah, he’s Bill’s brother. LOL
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