Posted on 02/11/2011 8:09:19 AM PST by pillut48
You are misinterpreting justifiable, fact-based concerns about the outcome in egypt for support for a dictator. No one here supports Mubarak. Nothing I have seen or heard on Fox has assuaged these very real concerns. In fact, I’ve heard them echoed by every commentator. Well, I guess Alan Colmes sees the same rosy picture wpin does.
Allegra thanks so much for giving your viewpoint. I find it helpful to view the events through the prism of those who have experienced the middle East firsthand.
Code Pink Mist Baby!
Of course, I’m sure your post is meant to stir up a debate by illustrating what Limbaugh calls demonstrating absurdity by being absurd.
Well, that’s what we get for propping up a dictator against the will of the people. Blowback’s a bitch. The commies have always been good at exploiting our errors. We’ll see how this turns out. Pity we have so little good will with the Egyptians, but I can’t say I blame them. Hopefully they’ll be smart enough to eschew socialism.
Nothing absurd about supporting liberty fieldmarshaldj...or, would you argue otherwise?
If you don’t support Mubarak why would you support his imposition over the people of Egypt?
Commenters offer opinions, I have been watching the people of Egypt on Fox...especially when the young reporter went to the streets among them...there are no signs of islamic or marxist influence. So far, all I have actually seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears is the crowd expressing their desire for freedom and a representative democratic form of government. I have literally wept when I heard one young man express Egypt’s RIGHT to be free.
I see opportunity xsmommy, not just a dead end. I see risk but all freedom requires risk. Guess I am just an unapologetic believer in American philosophy.
“I am more interested in what is in our own national security interests. Were I president I would probably have sent in the marines already, or at least had a landing ship right over the horizon.”
And we would have a huge crisis if we did that...I am sure we have ships moving into the area, but we certainly should not send them in at this point. At this point, everything looks good!
Usually one would have to accidentally wander over to DU, Huffinglue Post or MSNBC to encounter someone of your profound sense of wisdom. In any event, you do have an extraordinary sense of humor.
I have no doubt whatsoever that freedom is what they want.
But the removal of a dictator does not necessarily cause liberty to magically descend upon a population.
There are so many more factors required to even begin to see a democratic government put in place there.
There are many, many factors that would like to see that notion thwarted. Quashed. Eighty-sixed.
The power of the United States military and some friends were able to liberate one....so far, just one Middle Eastern nation. And that remains tenuous. Iran is doing everything it can to get a foothold and prevent Iraq from becoming a strong, functioning democracy.
I watched and wept tears of joy with the Iraqis when they first came into the light of freedom and voted in January 2005. I haven't given up, but that hasn't been firmly set yet, either. I'm still here...still watching and still doing what little I can to help. I want to see this work.
And I'd love to see Egypt attain true freedom.
I'm just not calling that at this point. The Middle East in general is far too fluid at this point.
We have to wait and see.
There is always risk in overthrowing tyranny...but there is no way any reasonable person can throw their support to the tyranny over risking for the liberty of the people...
And who is doing that, pray tell?
The only poster I have seen in the crowd read “Mission Accomplished” where did I hear that one before?
Oh, goodness....I could go on about that as well, but it's after midnight here. I'll check the pulse on this one in the morning.
Don't get me wrong. I'm a optimist.
But I'm also a realist.
I am not calling it a done deal by any means, indeed it seems we probably agree. I just will not react in fear to opportunity and the fact is there was no way Egyptians were going to get liberated without what has occurred. So, while it is not a done deal at this point, they are on the road at least.
The point with the poster, was that the person carrying that poster wanted to reach out to us and relate what they have done to the liberation of Iraq, which I suspect is much stronger than you may believe. Indeed, it is Iran who is worried at this point, as well they should be.
I can remember so many people not believing that Iraq would be able to agree to a constitution...it simply was not possible for a Middle Eastern nation to do this in a democratic way. They succeeded in record time. Then there was the “there will never be free elections” crowd. They were proven wrong as we witnessed Iraqis proudly waving their purple stained fingers. I have faith in the power of liberty.
Some people here are foolish enough to seem to want to bet against the power of liberty, but...history shows that is a bad bet. At least in recent times.
So, to get to the crutch of the matter. I refuse to in any manner support tyranny for any reason. I support liberty, and while it is fraught with risk, it is important enough to take the risk. Especially in the Middle East.
If we do not succeed in liberating the Middle East, which will certainly dampen the islamic fanatics, we are doomed to a terrible disaster. This is not a possibility it is certainty. As these nations garner nuclear weapons sooner or later, when there are a number of nations who have them making it difficult to trace where they came from...terrorist groups will get them. They will then use them on our and European cities. This is why we invaded Iraq, to begin the movement for liberty and democracy in the region.
President Bush outlined this plan very clearly and it seems to be coming to fruition. Let’s pray that it works, cause there is a lot at stake. But at least with this we have a chance for peace rather than a certainty of disaster.
President Bush outlined this plan very clearly and it seems to be coming to fruition. Let’s pray that it works, cause there is a lot at stake. But at least with this we have a chance for peace rather than a certainty of disaster.
When President Bush first made the speech to try and start democracy in the muslim world, I thought it would never happend as I thought Islam theocracy would never allow it, but if it worked, Bush would go down in history as the greatest president ever, I just hope I was wrong then and that it has started, hope it don’t happen so fast it leave a vacum for evil to take hold and grow like in Iran and Lebanon and lots of other places, I’m not particular religious, but this might be a good time to prey
Quite the Freudian slip. ;-)
Now, as soon as the Islamic Brotherhood (shouldn't that be siblinghood???) has formal control of Egypt, the weapons can flow into Gaza to kill Israeli Jews, as Ayres, Doehrn, and their pal BHO desire. Other than thse three, paleoPaulie and any surviving American Nazi Party types, few genuine Americans should be thrilled by these developments.
As to the term "neo-con," leave the use of that term to the leftists who invented it and to the "paleos" who find it useful in asserting their fantasies of being the ideological descendants of the pre-WW II America Firsters (John Flynn, Colonel McCormack, Charles Lindbergh, et al., each of whom embraced WW-II immediately after Pearl Harbor) You and I and most at FR are properly called conservatives while "paleowhatevers" are best though of as schizophrenics, cowards, traitors and ideological descendants of Neville Chamberlain.
The Shah of Iran was infinitely preferable to the Islamofascist regime that replaced him and the Shah was also infinitely preferable to the soviet stooge Mossagh Dagh whom he prevented from taking office in the early 1950s with US assistance. Likewise, whatever his drawbacks, Hosni Mubarek was infinitely preferable to Islamic Brotherhood street thugs enthusiastically backed by Comrade O.
Our goal in Iran and in Egypt and everywhere else should be individual human freedom in all things moral. Democracy is sometimes a method but need not be a goal in and of itself. If, as suggested editorially by Investor's Business Daily, the result of democracy would be a passionately yearned for religious tyranny, then democracy is not even vaguely competitive with the overriding imperative of individual human freedom in all things moral.
God bless you and yours.
Mubarak had outstayed his welcome and should have left around 10 years ago, arranging a smooth transition. There would still be problems today, but the opposition wouldn’t have someone to rally against and hold up as a scapegoat.
There is no telling how this will turn out.
Mark Levin mentioned tonight on his radio show that Egypt has a population of approximately 84-85 million people. Approximately 1-2 million people were protesting in the streets around the country...and Mubarak was forced to step down.
Not every single one of these approx. 82 millions folks who did NOT protest have Egypt’s best interests at heart—just something to think about.
I think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone on this forum that supports tyranny. In fact, your implications to the contrary are insulting to people on this board.
The point with the poster, was that the person carrying that poster wanted to reach out to us and relate what they have done to the liberation of Iraq, which I suspect is much stronger than you may believe.
I am fully aware of the ripple effect Iraq's liberatin had on the Middle East. I do, however, always find it amusing when someone who has probably never set foot in the Middle East tries to tell me how things are here. LOL
I can remember so many people not believing that Iraq would be able to agree to a constitution...it simply was not possible for a Middle Eastern nation to do this in a democratic way. They succeeded in record time. Then there was the “there will never be free elections” crowd.
Yes, there certainly were, and some of them called me nasty names and made snide remarks because I was most certainly not one of those people.
They were proven wrong as we witnessed Iraqis proudly waving their purple stained fingers.
Uh, yes....I witnessed it first-hand.
And I still am witnessing current developments first-hand. You need to understand that the US has different leadership now (if you can call it that) and Iraq is not getting the guidance and support from the top it was getting in the past. Their democracy is still alive, but Iran is always in the works, attempting to make Iraq a mullahcracy. Iran's "ambassador," the nasty Muqtada al Sadr is making headway and it's going to take the Iraqi people stepping up to curtail this.
Same thing with Egypt. The people have to want liberty badly enough that they are willing to fight for it.
I don't see this as a lost cause, by any means. I hope and pray that it works.
But the citizens of these nations have to want it as well. And want it badly.
Thanks again for your perspective, it’s invaluable to this forum. I also get a kick out of posters trying to tell you what it’s like in the region in which you live and work. Optimism is fine but it has to be tempered with realism. And the reality as you’ve pointed out, is fraught with legitimate concern.
“I think you would be hard-pressed to find anyone on this forum that supports tyranny. In fact, your implications to the contrary are insulting to people on this board.”
I don’t think it is difficult at all to find those who would have preferred Egypt remain in tyranny...just read the posts. And I hope like hell that I have insulted those people.
“I am fully aware of the ripple effect Iraq’s liberatin had on the Middle East. I do, however, always find it amusing when someone who has probably never set foot in the Middle East tries to tell me how things are here. LOL”
What never ceases to amaze me are those who think that because they have physically been to an area that they are the harbingers of truth for the area. God gave us minds which with we are capable of contemplative thought...and oftentimes being away from the small area from which a local is may be a better, broader view of what is going on.
“Yes, there certainly were, and some of them called me nasty names and made snide remarks because I was most certainly not one of those people.”
The remark was not about you, it was about those who were blind to the power of liberty and the universal desire to control one’s own destiny. The same traits are in the Egyptians and indeed in all people. Sometimes, it just needs to be awakened.
I understand that the US has different leadership...I do not agree with your implication that we are abandoning Iraq, we are doing what we have always planned on doing...letting them be free from us.
Iran is a bad influence in the region...President Bush understood this, but if you really do understand what is going on in the Middle East you will realize that they are on the ropes and in danger of failing more than succeeding in their evil quest. Do you know that they have blacked out news reports and stopped the internet in their country? This is evidence of several things that are undeniable fact. First, that the overthrow of Egypt’s dictator was NOT a Islamic victory, secondly that they have fear of their own people uprising against their government.
People here who are allowing their fears of what may happen (all bad things of course) are missing the boat completely. We do not support tyranny, period. Those who would prefer people live under tyranny for their own safety are supporting tyranny, period. You can gloss over this as much as you like, but the truth still holds. We have reason to celebrate the liberation of the Egyptian people, they have done more than most of us here have done for freedom. They deserve our respect and admiration, not our childish fears and anxieties diminishing their extraordinary accomplishments.
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