Posted on 12/29/2010 10:28:37 AM PST by abu afak
One of the staples of television news over the Christmas holiday is coverage of celebrations in the Holy Land, providing a familiar and comforting nod to the ancient roots of Western civilization.
Even in our increasingly secular society, images of Christians worshipping in Nazareth and Bethlehem provide welcome confirmation that we have a long and substantial history - even if we're fuzzy on the details. It all looks so traditional and Christmassy.
Unfortunately this comforting image depends to a large extent on a dwindling number of embattled Christian communities. We are, in fact, witnessing the twilight of Christianity across much of the Middle East.
Not so long ago Bethlehem was a majority Christian town - about 80 per cent - and now is down to less than a third. Nazareth, too, has seen its Christian population almost halved in recent decades, and in Jerusalem itself the Christian community has fallen from a slight majority 80 years ago to below two per cent today.
Christians are leaving the West Bank, in particular, to escape the instability and a long-standing Muslim boycott of Christian businesses that has ravaged the community's economic foundations.
Thankfully this modern-day exodus is mostly peaceful, which puts it in marked contrast to much of the history of Christian depopulation in the Middle East.
This is history the West has largely forgotten and ignored. Your average European or North American will certainly be more familiar with the story of the Palestinians and the much-publicized grievances of the Arab world in general.
Yet we're not talking ancient history here. [........] http://www.calgaryherald.com/life/Dwindling+persecuted+Christians+Holy+Land+most+Unreported+story/4030136/story.html
As always the deceit of Satan wants us to think that other then what the Scriptures teach. Let’s see what the Bible says about the influence of Satan in this world still.
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Does that sound like Satan no longer has power on earth today?
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
“rulersof the darkness of this world” Does that sound like Satan may have some control as ruler of this world?
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
“the god of this world? Now seriously. Why would Paul claim that Satan was the “god of this world” if Satan has been bound and no longer was controlling things here?
Know your Scriptures before using Satanic tactics to confuse.
So, in other words, you don't believe that Matt. 28:18 is true today, nor that the Church is called to follow Christ's command in vv. 19 & 20. Is that it? You don't believe that Jesus has the power to desire to see a nation like Israel converted to the true faith of Abraham by a peaceful means, that is, by the preaching of the gospel under the power of the Holy Spirit.
You confuse the limited deceptive powers of Satan with the “all Authority” of our Lord Jesus Christ. You give Satan far too much credit for what he is able to accomplish. It's Jesus who's all powerful, not the devil.
Rosenberg is a theological hack, like so many in the futurist prophecy community. He is “respected” by those who share his predilection for prognostication and fortunetelling. He is an opportunist who reads the newspapers to help his decide what the Bible says about the “end times.” His simplistic approach to Bible interpretation is the same poor methodology used by many of his contemporaries, the Hagees and Lindseys of tis world.
>> So, in other words, you don’t believe that Matt. 28:18 is true today, nor that the Church is called to follow Christ’s command in vv. 19 & 20. Is that it?<<
Yet another attempt at deceit. Of course “the Church” is called to follow Christ. No one said otherwise. Christians are not “of this world” if they truly accept Jesus as their only Savior. Jesus is not the God of the unsaved, He allows them to be influenced by the “god of this world”. Only after Jesus returns to this earth will He be the earthly King. You make the same mistake as the Jews of Jesus day in thinking that He is the King of this earth today.
You are soooo wrong. You need to research Rosenberg and you will find high profile leaders on both sides of the ocean hold him in high regard.
“Reagan” did...”Bush” does...and certainly ‘BiBi’ does and the list could go on and on. ...of which he has met with many times, as well as many other politcal leaders in Washington.. where he is known as “a force in Washington”.
You’d be well advised to look at bit closer at Rosenberg than your limited understanding of who he is and about. The fact is Rosenberg writes and THEN the newspapers and media go into action...not the way you have stated.
To just name a few others...Joel Rosenberg has worked for “Forbes” “Rush Limbaugh” “Benjamin Netanyahu”.
You just need to do some more homework.
IMO, this is the #1 mistake of the dispensationalist.
Christ is King TODAY on this earth and in heaven. The resurrection proved that fact to all those with eyes to see.
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." -- Colossians 1:16-17"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Christ is King over ALL THINGS.
I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen." -- 1 Timothy 6:12-16"Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
Those are our marching orders. Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords TODAY, "on earth as it is in heaven," now and always.
To ignore that fact simply hands over God's creation to those who deny Him.
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
The phrase “god of this world” (or “god of this age” [NKJV]) indicates that Satan is the major influence on the mind-set expressed by the ideals, opinions, goals, hopes and views of the majority of people. His areas of influence also encompass the world’s philosophies, education, and commerce. The thoughts, ideas, speculations and false religions of the world are under his control and have sprung from his lies and deceptions.
Similar titles are found elsewhere in Scripture concerning Satan. Satan is called the "prince of the power of the air" in Ephesians 2:2. He is called the "ruler of this world" in John 12:31. These titles, and many more attributed to Satan throughout Scripture, signify his capabilities. To say, for example, that Satan is the "prince of the power of the air" is to signify that in some way he rules over the world and the people in it.
This is not to say that he rules the world completely; only God does this. But it does mean that God, in His infinite wisdom, has allowed Satan to operate in this world (within the boundaries God has set for him) and has allowed Satan to operate with an agenda. When the Bible says Satan has power over the world, it must be made clear that God has given him domain over unbelievers alone. Believers are no longer under the rule of Satan (Colossians 1:13). Unbelievers, on the other hand, are caught "in the snare of the devil" (2 Timothy 2:26), lie in the "power of the evil one" (1 John 5:19), and are in bondage to Satan (Ephesians 2:2).
So, when the Bible says that Satan is the "god of this world," it is not saying that he has ultimate authority. It is conveying the idea that Satan rules over the unbelieving world in a specific way. In the case of 2 Corinthians 4:4, the unbeliever follows Satan's agenda. According to 2 Corinthians 4:4, the "god of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ." Satan's agenda includes pushing a false philosophy onto the unbelieving world—a false philosophy that blinds the unbeliever from the truth of the Gospel. Satan’s philosophies are the fortresses in which people are imprisoned, needing to be set free and brought captive to Christ in obedience to the truth.
Two thousand years ago there were 12 Christians.
Today there are millions into billions.
That is progress. A positive vector.
As you say, one more time...Christ spoke of a wheat field. Not a tares field.
>>That is progress. A positive vector.<<
So it’s your opinion that this world is getting more Godly not less?
How do you figure? I for one anticipate that a number of Israelis will become Jewish believers in Yeshua--though not culturally Christian--before the Second Coming that will surprise everyone.
Their theology depends on spiritual pessimism and declension.
According to most worldviews, so is the idea that Man is so totally depraved that God could only forgive us through the sacrifice of His Son. So what the heck does "pessimism" have to do with it? Isn't the idea that "humankind screwed it up too badly to fix, so God had to personally intervene in history to save us" pretty much the core tennant of Christianity?
It's amazing how Arminian some Calvinists become when it comes to their eschatology.
What lies ahead for unbelieving Israel is wholesale slaughter of millions after the Church is comfortably removed.
You really need to watch the over-generalizations of your opponents; not all premillennialism is pretribulational rapturist, and even many pretribs make a point of believing in pre-rapture tribulation of the Church.
Besides, you who think that the book closes for Israel with "the wholesale slaughter of millions" from which there can never be a true recovery--except, of course, for those Jews who repudiate everything that God gave us to make us Jewish by becoming not just followers of our Messiah, but also cultural Christians--are being utterly hypocritical with your mock concern over the End Time holocaust belief of the premills. Especially since premill ultimately teaches that Israel will emerge through that Holocaust in victory through her King on a day when
"In that day I will make the clans of Judah like a firepot among pieces of wood and a flaming torch among sheaves, so they will consume on the right hand and on the left all the surrounding peoples, while the inhabitants of Jerusalem again dwell on their own sites in Jerusalem. The LORD also will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem will not be magnified above Judah. In that day the LORD will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the one who is feeble among them in that day will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the Angel of the LORD before them. (Zec. 12:6-8)Have you ever actually been to Israel? Have you ever sat in the store of an anti-missionary and talked to him to find out why he now loves welcoming in Christian tour groups? Have you ever corresponded with members of the Sanhedrin who are open to considering Messianic Jews (those who actually live as Jews) as part of the family? Do you have any inkling why so many Jews, from top scholars on down, are starting to study the New Testament for themselves?
It is because these "prophecy pimps" have been Israel's only consistant friends in the world for over a hundred years. It is because these "prophecy pimps" stopped telling Jews what we believe and what we should believe and started asking in sincere interest. It is because they at least know how to show love and humility.
You mock the pharisees and the rabbis for being blind to the fulfillment of prophecy before their eyes, but you're no better. If only you were truly blind, you would have no sin. But since you say, "We see," your sin remains on you. Like Samson, you boast in your strength, and like Solomon in your wisdom. Like Sardis, you presently have a reputation that you are alive and even growing, but like Sardis, you are spiritually dead.
So please, dear preterist pimps and postmill pimps, give your arrogance a rest, stop pretending that you will win an earthly kingdom, and stop slandering your brothers.
Shalom.
Well said my Jewish brother. And Shalom to you!
From 12 Christians to billions of Christians in only 100 generations.
I'll take that as "progress" any day.
A long view is history is required of those who wish to understand history, don't you think?
The alternative is to give up the fight for this culture, for our communities and our future on this earth even though God has told us explicitly that the purpose of our lives is to bring glory to His name.
He told us to put on the breastplate of righteousness and the whole armor of God for a reason - to withstand the evil day and to remain standing.
Not to flee. Not to fall. To stand.
Without a personal visit from God (and while many moslems do get Damascus road experiences the number is still way to small to eradicate the culture over there) a moslem will never change
Frankly, I'm dubious. I hear these stories too, but they seem "too good to be true". See the comments here, by a native Turkish pastor, on alleged salvation by dreams and visions in the Muslim countries.
Whenever I am in the US people in different churches tell me that thousands of Muslims are converting through dreams and visions. Some missionaries here are exaggerating the situation when they tell their tales in their own countries. Some missionaries even encourage each other to look look for those stories in Turkish villages where dreams are shared in public gatherings with some folk tales…etc. I have even seen some missionaries asking Muslim converts whether they remember seeing an old man in their dreams! And encouraging a form of deception.I don’t see people converting through dreams or visions here in Turkey. I have heard some people dreaming about an old man with white beard.
Old man with white beard is common among the Muslim Arab, Iranians and Shamanistic Turkish cultures. When you encourage people to talk about their dreams they will tell you stories. But Christians should abandon this practice. How can Muslims repent without the preaching of the Word? How can a Muslim become a Christian after seeing an old man in his/her dream without knowing anything about Christ’s substitutionary atonement?
The audio linked there I highly recommend. The man is well spoken and has a very interesting story. His process of conversion started by watching the movie Ben Hur, and having questions. He spent years looking before he was even able to find a bible, and then was providentially was pointed to a small protestant church that served mostly foreigners.
Not at all.
Of course “the Church” is called to follow Christ.
Follow Him in what respect? Matthew 28 says the following:
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.The command to the Church is to go and do something. Do what? Disciple all the nations. Some nations? No, all nations. To what end? Baptizing and teaching them to observe all I commanded you.
The mission of the Church is to bring the gospel to all the nations in this age. Christ promises success because 1) He has been given all authority, and 2) it is by the power of the Holy Spirit, not mere human effort, that the work is ultimately accomplished.
Futurists don't believe success before Christ's return is an inevitability or even a possibility because they teach that Satan is in change.
You make the same mistake as the Jews of Jesus day in thinking that He is the King of this earth today.
What unmitigated nonsense. First of all it is the futurists who still insist on an earthly King. They are the ones espousing the same false ideas as the apostate Jews of Jesus' day.
Secondly, non-premils have no teaching of Christ reigning on the earth in a carnal kingdom. We do teach that He is reigning now from the throne of David, but it is a spiritual/heavenly reign, not carnal. This is taught in many places in the NT.
But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. (Matt. 12:28; cf. Luke 11:20)Now the futurists and the apostate Jews deny that last statement since they both predict a time when one will be able to say “here is the kingdom.” In their worldview, they see Jesus sitting on a carnal throne in carnal Jerusalem ruling over immortal as well as mortal men, both regenerate and non-regenerate.Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. (Matt. 21:43)
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, " The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." (Luke 17:20,21)
The futurists are much like the Pharisees looking for the literal kingdom of Messiah on earth. The true reign of Jesus today is not enough for them.
Surely even you can see this radical distinction between the teaching of Jesus and His disciples and the teaching of the prophecy pimps with their carnal kingdom on earth.
Amen. the physical kingdom has been here since Christ who is the head of it, for those with eyes to see.
Israeli leaders have proven time and time again that will meet anytime and anyplace with any fool useful to their cause. They have found many in the Christian Zionist community, like Hagee and his CUFI (pronounced goofy) crowd. Rosenberg plays well with that group because the new great Satan of end-times prophecy pimps are the Muslims.
Estimates of the worlds population in Jesus day was about between 800,000 - 1.4 million
Can we assume that 1/3 of that population had been converted by the time all of the Apostles had died? It wouldn’t be such a stretch to believe that that many had converted by then or within a short period of time.
Estimates of the world’s population today 6,894,167,298
Many sources mention 2.1 billion who call themselves Christians in the world (about one third of the total population of the planet), but estimating numbers is fraught with difficulties. What is included among the definition of 'Christian' is not agreed upon by many of the groups involved. You know as well as I do the problems with that number.
My guess is that is not the progress you would like to assume.
>> He told us to put on the breastplate of righteousness and the whole armor of God for a reason - to withstand the evil day and to remain standing.<<
If Jesus is truly the total ruler of this world why would we need to “withstand the evil”? Especially if, as the Dominionists and Preterists believe, Satan has already been chained and has no influence today.
’Rosenberg’ is highly respected on the International Scene as well as statewide, politically and otherwise with many national leaders. Religious and otherwise as well.
Really? Amazing if true.
The so called Jews of this generational Israel may consider the prophecy pimps their friends but I would assure you they are not friends over true religion, they are not friends because they worship the same God, Jesus. The consider them friends because of politics, and they are just like politicians they will tell their audience the prophecy pimps anything they want to hear to get their vote/money. I'm not saying this generational jews are absolutely evil but at least they have a democratic government which most of their Islamic enemy surrounding them do not, and at least they have some sort of civil law based on the old Testament which the Islam counties do not, well maybe a shadow of it but far from it. Basically the U.S. government considers this generational Israel the lesser of the two evils over the very ungodly Islamic countries that surround Israel, but then again the U.S. government plays both sides of the coin because of oil situation, but hey why not use up their oil first.:^)
Personally I don't think there are very many Jews over their converting to Christianity and if so its probably just a drop in the bucket per say. I think it takes a hell of a lot of faith to believe the Jews will convert in mass, I think that is a big pipe dream of the dispensationalist, It takes more faith to believe in that then to believe the War between the States was about States Right, yeah right, it was about slavery no matter which way you slice or dice it but you can get a lot of people to believe it was about states Rights. The States Rights issue was just a cleaned up nice way to fight for slavery, to put a clean moral spin on it the issue. But it will always amaze you what some people will believe. It's hard to get people to fight over slavery but they will sure fight over the states right to continue slavery especially if most of their income comes from slavery whether they are slave owners or not. Some how money will over rule morals in most cultural cases if you are in love with the world.
Oh and I'm one of those few that believe this generation political Israel has nothing to do with the first century Jews either prophetically or genetically. Basically those Jews were destroyed by the Romans, a few fled the Romans but most of them were Jews that had already converted to Christianity or knew better then to associate with the Jewish religion, they melted into the surrounding cultures. Oh and I do like Calvin and Hobbes. :^), Well here I go again sucking up a few hours freeping and posting a post a day, I'm not to good at the typing etc. so I've got to keep it to a post a day if I want to get anything else done, take care.
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